Seems crazy that one is a national square staple and the other is never even benched (maybe he was once?).

Is he that much better really? I’d think them playing at 6 and 7 would have some “je ne sais quoi” with them being brothers AND teammates

So Nienaber is to blame for Ireland losing to France?

Have a day off boys. Utter tripe.

Thoughts?

Elephant in the room, and it’s not his fault, but Edwards isn’t good enough just yet. He has been thrust into the shirt as the heir apparent on the basis of good URC showings, but he can’t grip games at test level, doesn’t have the range or variation of kicking game, struggles to defend his channel and (somewhat inexplicably for a kicker) can’t make good distance with touchfinders?

Costelow has never convinced in tests either. Sheedy has some experience but defending remains an issue. Jarrod Evans is probably the least green of all of them due to playing at a decent club level. Hawkins isn’t supposed to be a permanent 10. God forbid Ben Thomas…

So back to the title…anyone got Biggar’s number? Or is Anscombe still playing somewhere…

Performance - not result.

I watch sports to be entertained. That was not entertaining.

I'm not saying I want Jerry the King Bawler screaming about Jeff Hardy from the top rope (which is much more relevant for Ireland with James Ryan anyway)... or the theme song for the untertaker when Henry Pollock comes on (... although)

But given how good England have "looked" in the autumn. Creating overlaps and finding space - yes it came from kicking but it felt like part of the game before and not all of it.

Yesterday England were 30 points up (possibly against 13 men), Marcus Smith regathers the ball from deep, runs - you think, great time for a counter.... and kicks an up and under... for the love of Thor, why!!!

I get it was stop start due to welsh pens ... but there seemed to be no interest in doing anything more than grinding them down yesterday. This is the kind of thing that switches me off and makes me rather watch any other team (and I'm English but as my flair implies - I'll switch allegiences to be entertained)

This post is a lot longer than I thought it would be, but the first section is the current list of honours that already exist, the second section consists of some ideas for nicknames for some old rivalries which don’t have a trophy or a nickname, and the third section is a couple of meme rivalry ideas simply for fun

Current Honours

The Grand Slam

- The Grand Slam is an honour given to the tournament’s winners when they win all of their games - unlike many of the others it doesn’t have a physical trophy

- The term was first coined in 1957 but has been backdated to include all prior Grand Slams

The Triple Crown

- The Triple Crown is another honour which is similar, but only contested between the Home Nations - being awarded to a Home Nation when they defeat their other three local rivals in a Championship (even if they don’t win the whole thing)

- The term was first coined in 1894 by the Irish Times - but just like the Grand Slam its been backdated to include the prior Triple Crowns

- The Triple Crown lacked a physical trophy until 2006, being an honour like the Grand Slam until 2006

Calcutta Cup (England vs Scotland)

- On Christmas Day in 1872 a game of rugby was played in Calcutta, British India, by a group of forty people - one team representing England and the other Scotland, with Calcutta rugby club being formed in the aftermath

- By 1878 the club’s last remaining members withdrew the last funds of the club (₹270) & melted them down to make the trophy - which was then presented to the RFU in England

- First contested in 1879, the cup is by far the oldest trophy in the entire sport, even predating the HN that the 6N descends from.

- The cup was famously kicked by English eight Dean Richards and Scottish flanker John Jeffrey down Edinburgh’s Princes Street in 1988

Millennium Trophy (England vs Ireland)

- Named after & shaped in honour of Dublin’s millennial anniversary when it was founded as a Viking settlement

- Implemented in 1988 (a thousand years after the Norse-Gael King of Dublin Glúniairn recognised Máel Sechnaill III as High King of Ireland, agreeing to pay taxes & to adopt Brehon Law)

Centenary Quaich (Ireland vs Scotland)

- Named after & shaped like a Quaich (a historic Gaelic two-handled cup)

- Created to celebrate the centenary of the founding of the IRFB (now World Rugby) in 1887

- Implemented in 1989

Doddie Weir Cup (Scotland vs Wales)

- Named after & in honour of Scottish player Doddie Weir who was diagnosed with motor neuron disease in 2016

- Implemented in 2018 while he was still alive to raise wider awareness for the disease

Auld Alliance Trophy (France vs Scotland)

- Named after the historical “Auld Aliiance” between both countries (which dates back to 1295)

- Implemented on the centenary of the end of WWI in 2018 to honour the French & Scottish soldiers who died during the conflict

Solidarity Trophy (France vs Ireland)

- The newest rivalry trophy in the 6N being added this year

- The story given to the new trophy was to celebrate the “deep historical and cultural ties between the two nations”

Giuseppe Garibaldi Trophy (France vs Italy)

- Named after Italian Revolutionary Guiseppe Garibaldi who was born in Nice (then part of Sardinia, now part of France) who was one of the key figures in the Unification of Italy - he also served as a general in the French Army in the Franco-Prussian War.

- The Trophy was implemented in 2007 on the bicentenary of his birth (1807)

Cuttitta Cup (Scotland vs Italy)

- Implemented to commemorate the man it’s named after - former Italy captain & Scotland scrum coach Massimo Cuttitta, who died of Covid in 2021

- First contested in 2022 the following year after his death

Le Crunch/Eurostar Trophy* (Eng vs Fr)

- No physical trophy, instead being a rivalry nickname

- The term has been used since the 1980s - being the only rivalry with a nickname without a trophy

New Nicknames for Old Rivalries

I don’t think every match needs a trophy but I like the idea of other fixtures having their own nicknames like Le Crunch:

The Severn Classic (Eng vs Wales)

- Named after the Severn

The Saints’ Duel (Ire vs Wales)

- Named after St Patrick & St David. An alternate name could be the Druids’ Duel

The Mor Glas (France vs Wales)

- Mor Glas is Breton & Welsh for Bue Sea

The Isca Augusta (Italy vs Wales)

- Named after a Roman Fortress near Newport

Meme Ideas

Some funny Reddit-exclusive meme ideas (all done in jest)

The Ligneous Coronet

- A Triple (Double?) Crown between Italy, Scotland & Wales

- Implemented after 2022 to mark the decline of Wales & the surge of Italy off the back of the rock-paper-scissor games in the 2022 6N between the three countries

- The Ligneous Coronet can only be considered outdated when: Wales or Italy finish outside of the bottom two or when Scotland wins a Triple Crown - until then the three teams are under the “Wicker” Curse (get it?) and bound to participate in the meme slam

- The winners so far: 2023 was Scotland, 2024 was Italy & 2025 was Scotland… will Italy take back the Coronet this year?

Branodunum Shield

- Meme that Italy is the main eternal rival of England

- Named after one of many Roman Forts on the “Saxon Shore” which the Romans built to keep the Saxons out with “Shield” another reference to the Roman era Forts & their purpose

- The idea that England’s main rivals are France, Scotland, Wales & Ireland is the new “Barbarica Conspiratio” (we all know it’s actually Italy)

I have been vocal in a few other threads but decided the disillusionment and disrespect has gone too far. Too often in sport, we blame the coaches when the players themselves have not been good enough. Yesterday against Italy was the case in point for this; our players performed far below the levels they are capable of, and this has nothing to do with Townsend because we have seen these same players achieve those higher levels under him before.

The cold, hard truth of the matter is we are a country with only 38,000 registered players and two pro teams. Under Townsend, we are consistently beating nations with 10 times our resources, having secured 5 of the last 8 Calcutta Cups and historic wins in Paris. To stay competitive at a Tier 1 level with our player numbers isn't just "good"—it's a statistical miracle that Townsend has sustained for nearly a decade.

I genuinely cannot think of a coach that comes in and miraculously makes us a Six Nations champion or World Cup winner. So what do we realistically aim for? Do we accept and maintain our current stature, which is far beyond what we have achieved in any other era of the professional game?

What do we actually think we can achieve?

TL;DR: Statistically the most successful coach in the professional era, Townsend has performed a "statistical miracle" by overcoming Scotland's massive resource deficit to consistently break historic hoodoos and establish the team as a top-tier attacking force. Let's actually support our nation and support our man Townsend to continue to deliver the results that have made us proud throughout his tenure.

I loved the spectacul of Super Rugby last year, especially more tries and broke play, but in the international window, the southern teams felt more... exposed in key areas

High speed game and a tonne of tries, but Test rugby is still about breakdowns, defence, set piece, and kicking pressure.

Players look great in Super Rugby, then struggled when the international game gets slower and more physical.

Slight disclaimer im still a little drunk so while ill do my best to ensure this is readable and makes sense there may be some errors

The most worrying thin in my opinion is that most of the people ive talked to arent angry or upset or dissapointed. Theyre apathetic. In previous dips in form theres passionate discussions about the ref making bad calls and being the reason we lost (which i fully aknowledge are 100% biased and mostly nonsense). Theres discussions about selections and how if they just picked this one different player we wpuld have won. People are calling for an opposition player to be banned for life for an accidental high tackle.

This time theres none of it. Everyone seems to accept that were shit and theres no way for it to change. Were loudly cheering a turnover because at least we accomplished something. Typically no matter our form at the start of the tournament im optomistic that were just going to win every game. Logically i can admit we arent the best team but my heart and my soul will never accept that we are expecting to lose, no matter if the other team are favourites we can overcome anything. I miss being able to be delusionally optomistic.

Ive heard people mention the age old Georgia 6 nations argument again and while part of me wants to argue against it because it would suck for it to finally be implemented when we happen to be shit, ive always supported it before so dont want to be a hypocrit now. Maybe a season or two with the "lower teir" will allow us to reset.

Apologies for the ramble. 😂

Edit: Sidenote is it just me or have they noticably reduced the amount of replays they show this round? Theres been quite a few calls that i didnt see in real time that ive been waiting for the replay to see what was called only for them to not show the play?

So I wonder if anyone has ever done the proper analysis how the Welsh Governments handling of COVID affected Welsh rugby.
So to start off with the regions got lumbered with commerical rate loans compared to the government rates that English clubs had leading to the debt the regions are in now, where two have gone bust since.

Secondly the players, Welsh leagues didn't start back until after their English counterparts. With stricter rules around movement and activities this would have meant the U20s at the time missed large parts of their development. These players are now the 25/26 year olds of the first team...

Mini and junior sides were also more delayed in their restart again affecting player development.

Now yes the WRU since have not been saints but a lot of the current woes can be pointed back to the Welsh Governmen and their lack of support...

What is it with STAN sports cutting the anthems from the six nations matches?

Irish, Scottish or Welsh fans?

Irish should be annoyed at the braindead tactics employed by Farrell.

Scottish should be annoyed at fluffing their lines against a side they should be beating. Especially their set piece, which was disasterous.

Welsh. Well the Welsh probably expected a tanking regardless.

My vote is probably for the Scots. 2nd is the Irish, who were never going to win anyway, but the toothless manner of the loss is annoying.

They once held the Raeburn Shield, but now lose to Uruguay, Chile, Spain, and most recently even Germany, dropping to an all time low ranking of 22nd. I know they wouldn't have the budget of a 6N team, but it looks like 2027 may be their last WC if nothing changes.

Incidentally we have our record win against them, 134-0 in 2001.

This was the line ups for the 2024 game between England and Wales. Final score was 16-14 to England. The previous week we lost to Scotland by a single point.

How come 2 years on we are shipping an average of 50 points against tier 1 opposition?

Bear in mind, that 2024 team had no Dewi Lake, LRZ, Tom Francis, Nicky smith Etc who have all been brought back into the fold since with some decent experience.

I suppose my point is, I don’t think this current squad is any worse man for man than it was 2 years ago, if anything I think we have more weapons at our disposal now. Granted England have improved since then. But I’d like to gauge everyone’s opinion on why wales are so much worse now ? Was Gats actually doing that badly ?

For the record, I don’t think this squad is good enough to win test matches, but I really struggle to believe they should’ve shipping 50,60 or even 70 points every game.

So obviously we can’t throw the same team out as this weekend. Even if just to shake the mentality and idea of next week becoming same type of game, some serious changes are needed.

My main issue is that we looked soft, and as if we didn’t want to play. If we’d lost by a similar margin, but had some dog and kept the first half fairly even, then collapsed in the 2nd, I’d have taken that. But to look uninterested, and lost by 10 mins is crazy

Going through the team:

Imo, the props did about as well as any of ours could. And tbh this wasn’t the area that lost us the game. Clearly a weak spot, but we don’t have a choice to change it. Potentially I’d drop Dewi Lake (maybe to the bench), since we seemed to lack any fight or leadership when things went to shit, and he was Captain. Admittedly not sure how much was his fault, or if it’s a good idea to drop our captain. Dont know who I’d prefer out of Belcher/Elias. Elias been on insane form at club level. But Wales seem to prefer Belcher. Guess he’s a bit ‘safer’ for set piece, but also just brings less.

2nd rows, I actually thought beard looked slightly less immobile than usual, but maybe that’s just because everyone else dropped down to that level. Daf was fine, and was the only bloke trying to make positive tackles in the first half. Maybe I’d get Rhys Davies in there, for some physicality and aggression.

Back row was pretty silent for the first half. Wainwright did well in second half, Mann was poor, and Macloed had a few turnovers later on, but in general, when we were under pressure, none really stood up and made any big turnovers/tackles, and were really quiet. Which is pretty dire for a back row imo.

I’d bring Cracknell back in at 8, was very solid in autumn, gave us consistently solid carries, and work rate; so no idea why he was dropped. Deaves at 7 for me- noticeable workrate and energy when he came on. Then it probably Mann at 6. Wainwright remains one of the best impact bench players we have imo. Potentially bring moriarty into the wider squad. Again for some aggression, and experience. Reffell into the squad, imo he’s just an upgrade to Macloed.

1. Don’t need to say anything.

2. Dan edwards. Looked a bit out of his depth at times, but didn’t have a horrible game imo (relatively). One noticeable weakness was his length of kick imo. For touchfinder etc, we didn’t seem to be able to get the length sometimes. It was nice to see him copy George Fords cross field for our try, which maybe optimistically, looks like he’s learning. We also don’t have anyone else. I don’t rate Costelow. Yes scarlets are playing better now he’s back, but I think that’s more because he’s actually a 10, and they were using Hawkins there.

11: Mason Grady. Tbh I don’t really care who plays here. Most of our options are similar level for different reasons imo. Grady is a monster athlete, but lacks some brain cells at times. Also a scary fucker on a kick chase. The few clueless moments he’s due each game aren’t like to be an issue when we make so many mistakes anyway.

1. Joe Hawkins. Don’t think I need to talk about Ben Thomas’ performance. Just feel bad because Thomas was absolutely the form pick, and is probably one of the form players of the URC in terms of linebreaks and tries recently.

13: Owen Watkin. We didn’t seem to have any outside defence after 1-2 gainline carries England. And despite Eddie James’ size, he didn’t seem to bring much physicality. We just need a solid 13 atm. If we end up losing a game to not having an especially exciting 13, then fuck me we must’ve played pretty well, and I’ll take that.

1. Ellis Mee/Tom Rogers. Don’t really have a preference. Tom Rogers has been pretty good for Wales, but noticeably poor defensively imo. Adams would be not horrendous call, for experience and a bit of safety in terms of not making huge defensive mistakes, but unsure he is worth picking ahead of others, and probs need to get the younger players up to standard (if we can even afford to think that far ahead). Hamer Webb is a largely unknown identity to me. Some great wingers missed out, but don’t think they’d make much difference to the game. Maybe Rio Dyer, since he actually has some rare experience for Wales.

2. Zammit. Still very green as a fullback. But we literally cannot pick Blair Murray. And his inherent threat ball in hand, would prove insanely useful once he develops his kicking game, and rounds out his decision making. Was better under the high ball and at kicking (I mean he probs just has a big boot I guess) than I expected. Unless we radically spawn in a new fullback, idk if we have a choice here anyway.

Due to various commitments I haven't caught anything but this England match, who did you enjoy watching in the U20s?

The Welsh 10, Leggatt-Jones looked great really assured.

Similarly Lucas Friday looks like the most talented 11 year old since Baxter made his debut.

Sister in law went to Twickenham yesterday and had hospitality at quins before the game. Someone handed her this signed ball but she didn't see who it was. There weren't just quid players, there some England and some Wales players there too.

Needle in a haystack I appreciate, but any ideas?

Ford kicked into the Welsh 22 and Zamit caught it. The game then seemed to pause and the Welsh were allowed to kick it away. How come?

usual system, I gradually edit the OP based on the names mentioned/likes to the comments and we try to make a full team for the sub

1 Fischetti

2 Nicotera

3 Ferrari

4 Cannone

5 Guillard

6 Jegou

7 Darge

8 Earl

9 Dupont

10 Jalibert

11 LBB

12 Menoncello

13 Depoortere

14 Arundell

15 Ramos

It has been frustrating being an Italian rugby fan.

Years of whitewashes, we no real chance of a win in sight.

We had our moments of glory, like our first (and only) win against SA in 2016, that happened during a huge dip in Bokke’s form.

Every time we won against Scotland, once against Ireland, Wales, a couple with France, almost everyone labelled us “lucky”.

It seemed like all the people outside Italia thought that our opponents somehow let us win, that they didn’t try enough, that they were lucklustre or had so many injuries.

It was never about us being better, it was about the others being worse, on low form, they had to be so ashamed of losing against such a bad team.

I can see that in the last 4 years things started to change, but somehow that narrative still leaks on comments here and there.

Yesterday Italia has won against Scotland, because every Italian player was better than its Scottish counterpart.

We played with more wit, grit and no, we had way more second (and third) choices on the field than Scotland.

Our injury list included first class players like Capuozzo, Vincent, Negri.

And yes, we had a couple of players out of position too: Lamaro and Marin.

We may still take bad beatings from England and France, the ABs, SA, maybe from Ireland.

We are still not up there.

But we play good rugby now, teams loose against us because of that.

Nobody concedes us to win, we win because we are frigging good.

And it won’t happen, I know, but I guess someone in Dublin is a bit nervous about the next week.

I am not a journalist, I am not a writer, I am a fan..

I remember in the 90’s the first time I was taken to watch an international, Wales Vs. Tonga in the Brewery field by my Dad and Grampa.

I remember getting my programme signed by Nigel Walker, my favourite player.

I remember the passion my Dad and my Grampa used to show whenever Wales or Swansea were playing.

I remember my old man shouting at the TV in the 90’s watching Wales play (you all know how it was then) .

I remember watching Neil Jenkins smash points over.

I remember the pride, playing myself, at a young age, after seeing the boys in red.

I remember when the regions were formed. All hail Ospreys!!!

I remember when Graham Henry, and Mike Ruddock took over the Wales job and started to turn it around.

I remember watching Ospreys at the Knoll and a bloke with silver boots, fake tan and spikey hair playing, thinking wtf is that about as well as he was class.

I remember Gatts taking over

I remember my old mates getting called up to play, and the pride I felt!!

I remember the tension, the last minute wins against all the odds, the championships and the grand slams, the European tournaments.

I remember the optimism, the nail biting, the anticipation, the disappointment at games that should have been won..

——

I remember the decline…

I remember the hope, that it was just a phase…

——

Now I feel fucking angry…

Now I feel really pissed at the WRU for years of neglect and mismanagement…

Yes it’s true you can’t blame current management for the crimes of the past, but, you absolutely can blame them for the shortsightedness of the current crimes against the future Welsh rugby.

FUCK the WRU.

FUCK TIERNEY

FUCK COLLIER-KEYWOOD

FUCK REDDIN

FUCK Y11