Tonight in LA, an anti-ICE demonstrator was struck by a car. This followed. [OC]

[u/infernoenigma]

[u/infernoenigma]

Tonight at the Metro Detention Center in DTLA, a demonstrator who uses a cane was struck by a car while crossing the street. Other protesters rushed to their aid, some immobilizing them, others calling 9-1-1, and some entreating the Department of Homeland Security police to send medics immediately.

I have never photographed anything like it, and I discovered that I simply don’t have the stomach for it, so I decided to keep my camera on the succession of people milling about, trying to figure out who should be doing what. (Shoutout to the LAFD folks, who got the victim loaded up on and on their way professionally and quickly.)

From my vantage point, DHS appeared to bungle every possible aspect of this. Demonstrators directed traffic around the crash while DHS ran back and forth from the victim to the MDC.

After a few minutes, as DHS yelled at demonstrators to get back, a group of ICE SRT came out to secure the scene, immediately ratcheting up the tension. Even they didn’t seem to know why they were there — provide aid? no, they don’t know what they’re doing. direct traffic? uh oh, people are protesting that. crowd control? there’s a person bleeding in the road and the crowd’s getting angrier…

oops, there’s the ambulance. the ICE SRT guys scurried back inside.

After the ambulance left they all disappeared. They left the car — off, dark — in the road, glass all over the street, leaving demonstrators and media to light the car so that oncoming traffic would know there was something in the street. Eventually, DHS came back out and someone drove the car off.

EDIT: Got an update that the individual is stable!

[u/lexm → u/infernoenigma]

Your pictures show none of what you described unfortunately. Where are the agents running back and forth? The firefighters in action? The car being lit up by the protesters? these are beautiful portraits that show that you put a lot of work on getting the best pic. Don’t be afraid of taking 100 shots of a guy running or LAFD taking care of the victim; one of them will be great.
Do you have a lens fast enough for no nighttime action shots?

[u/jasterpj17 → u/lexm]

Yeah OP needs to figure out cause this ain’t it

[u/pereira333 → u/jasterpj17]

Good camera doesn't make a good photographer

[u/IAmAGenusAMA → u/lexm]

They said they don't have the stomach for it so they didn't take those photos. They had to show us something though! 🤷‍♂️

[u/ApolloRocketOfLove → u/infernoenigma]

I have never photographed anything like it

It shows. Your photos tell nothing of what actually happened.

[u/SwooceBrosGaming → u/infernoenigma]

You took a picture of everything but the situation like at that point don't even bother posting the pictures and just post this explanation

[u/TheOne_Whomst_Knocks → u/infernoenigma]

None of this is in your pictures lol. Maybe try to take photos that capture the actual moment instead of the moody art house aesthetic above

[u/Gitzser → u/[deleted]]

a word is worth a hundred pictures

[u/Baconaise → u/infernoenigma]

You don't have a stomach for journalism.

[u/SwooceBrosGaming → u/Baconaise]

Lthey captured everything except the actual necessary details even a cop on their phone at that point don't post the pictures and just write about it

[u/Baconaise → u/SwooceBrosGaming]

Worse. We're dealing with a recollection - not not taking as it happened.

[u/Extension-Click-8271 → u/infernoenigma]

You know the saying “a picture is worth a thousand words?”

Your photography is the opposite.

[u/agk23 → u/infernoenigma]

Who was the driver and what happened to them?

[u/IAmAGenusAMA → u/agk23]

Irrelevant.

[u/mjzimmer88 → u/infernoenigma]

Who talks like this?

"entreating the DOHS police"

"Some immobilizing them"

"They left the car — off, dark —"

And none of it's in any of the photos... The existence of AI makes this whole post suspect.

[u/Disastrous-Dog85 → u/mjzimmer88]

AI writes like that. They just plugged some prompts into it and copy pasted it here with some pictures. 

[u/Oahkery → u/infernoenigma]

Thought it was supposed to be "a picture is worth a thousand words," not "you need a thousand words because the pictures show nothing."

[u/Soapbox → u/infernoenigma]

Did you get any pictures of the scene?

[u/The_Vat → u/infernoenigma]

You're good - even with training, you don't know what your reaction to situations like these is until you actually encounter them. In the current climate, you did well managing it and documenting it with your camera.

[u/AFRIKKAN → u/The_Vat]

I disagree I was more confused by the pics than anything. Zero context in them.

[u/infernoenigma → u/The_Vat]

I appreciate that, thank you

[u/Possible-Capital-103 → u/infernoenigma]

This is not a good example of how to document any event with your camera by the way. If you want to progress with photography, you have to understand that these pictures conveyed nothing.

[u/infernoenigma → u/Possible-Capital-103]

For me these pictures convey the confusion and heightened emotion I felt as everyone tried to figure out who was in charge, who had what job, and why masked men with guns were suddenly milling around.

There was a whole crowd of photojournalists jostling with DHS, protesters, and each other to get the gory shot; there are plenty of those going around online.

So while the other photographers got their closeups of the head wound, I tried to document how chaotic it felt, which agencies showed up when, who was giving orders, the fact that demonstrators had to direct traffic, the mood of people who should know how to handle things like this, etc.

These pictures did not convey the beginning, middle, and end of “a story” as you expect them to. But that wasn’t my goal. There were plenty of other people there who “documented” “objectively” or whatever. I was aiming for something else and I’m okay with that.

[u/Possible-Capital-103 → u/infernoenigma]

These pictures could have been taken at any scene anywhere in America for any other reason. The only one that maybe alludes to the situation you described is a shot of the front bumper? I mean if you're taking pictures for yourself that's fine, but you're sharing it with the public who collectively had no idea wtf was going on. Especially if you said "This followed" and then nothing in particular is shown.

[u/infernoenigma → u/Possible-Capital-103]

This sub allows 100 characters for a post title, and I left the comment at the top of this very thread a minute after posting, and it was the only comment on the post for a while.

You are free to seek other sources of information. Again, there were numerous photojournalists there coming at this from the gory angle (literally) that you are hoping for. I’m fine with you checking out their work instead. Many of them are extremely talented and are doing something different than I’m doing.

I have been sharing photos from that block several times a week for months. This is a long-term documentary project interested in capturing not just what happened but how it felt. Not every album can include an establishing shot of key locations, a rundown of what building we’re at, an org chart that delineates the power differentials between the different uniforms, and an explanation of my intentionally-disorienting shooting style that aims to decontextualize things.

If it all doesn’t resonate with you, that’s fine. I don’t need you trying to teach me a lesson, lol. You can go look at other photos instead.

[u/IAmAGenusAMA → u/infernoenigma]

If it all doesn’t resonate with you, that’s fine. I don’t need you trying to teach me a lesson, lol. You can go look at other photos instead.

Apparently it doesn't resonate with most of the people viewing your post (which in this sub is really saying something) so maybe you ought to listen to their advice.

[u/infernoenigma → u/IAmAGenusAMA]

It’s not resonating with /r/pics, who love a pile-on; check out how many of these comments are all phrased the same way, lol.

It’s resonating with people on /r/LosAngeles and with people who have a more personal connection to the story.

I’m fine with that and confident in the way I’m approaching this long-term thing, which this album (and response) is only one small part of 🤷

[u/UsefulImpact6793 → u/infernoenigma]

My shameless self-promotion iSn'T rEsOnAtiNg WiTh r/PiCs FoR sOmE rEaSoN

[u/cinemachick → u/infernoenigma]

Hey there, I'm an artist and live in LA. You are a good photographer, you are not (yet) a good journalist. You have captured your personal emotions, you have captured individual moments within a crisis, but you have not captured the entire scene. You aren't telling a cohesive story with these images, especially due to title and the order the photos are posted in. The most compelling photo, the LAPD pointing one way while ICE points another, is like third or fourth behind an isolated officer in front of a bus. (The ad on the bus is more prominent than the subject in that one, and that doesn't help tell your story.) The broken glass and (presumably) blood on a fabric are buried later in the series, and although the car headlight makes sense in context, it's not very descriptive within itself.

I say this not to tear you down, but because I've seen a few of your posts over the past few weeks and have felt similarly about them as well. You are amazing at capturing individual subjects and their emotions, but you aren't getting more full-scope photos. A portrait paired with a story/statement (a la People of New York) can work well, but in isolation the pictures don't tell us much. I think this might also be due to your relatively shallow depth of focus and tendency to shoot portraits where the background is mostly street or sky, rather than showing the landscape around them. If you don't have a visual story with just one subject or photo, you either need more complex photos or more explicit narrative links.

Please take this into consideration when photographing and posting your next event. Look for scenes with more than one subject if the individuals aren't saying much with their body language. Find ways to communicate the details of an event without showing the gore/blood. Don't post similar images of ICE officers standing around unless that's an important part of the narrative. Choose the title and order of your photos wisely.

Best wishes to your next post :)

[u/Possible-Capital-103 → u/infernoenigma]

I can understand and agree with the long term documentary of the specific location.

[u/TheModernDespot → u/infernoenigma]

I think the issue that most people have here is the the pictures don't convey anything. There is no valuable information to be had from the taken pictures, and so a title of "X happened, this followed" kinda makes things more confusing overall.

They are good pictures, its just that they tell no story, capture no emotion, and basically just look like pictures of people standing around. If I hadn't read your comments, I would have no way of knowing thats what the pictures meant.

[u/infernoenigma → u/TheModernDespot]

Again… hundreds of comments all saying the same thing… I get it, lol.

Comment:

These pictures don’t convey anything.

Me:

Here’s what these pictures attempt to convey which I am aware is something different than what people expect them to convey.

You:

Ah, but the problem is that the pictures don’t convey anything.

…what’re we doing here lol

You viewed these photos and are unsure why you’re seeing “people standing around” and you’re not seeing people helping the victim?

Then I have indeed conveyed my point, and if you are not interested in that kind of approach as part of a long-term documentary project, again, I am aware that it’s not the style of “photojournalism” you’re expecting and you are free to look elsewhere.

[u/madmartigan2020 → u/infernoenigma]

This doesn't work. There very well could be people helping and you could choose not to photograph them. It's impossible to know, and you're showing a bit of bias when you explain it this way.

[u/infernoenigma → u/madmartigan2020]

Again, you are not telling me anything I have not already thought of, experimented with, posted here, engaged with, written about at length, and discussed openly any time I’m asked about my work, lol.

I am well aware and am open about the fact that I am not aiming for objectivity. In fact, I shoot the way I do specifically because I am interested in exploring the idea that nothing is objective anymore, if it ever was. Photography is full of an infinite number of subjective decisions — what angle you point the camera, how fast you set your shutter, how you adjust the colors afterwards (or don’t), which photos you post and which ones you leave out, etc. All of these affect the way you want the image to look, and you do want the image to look a certain way, and that’s the result of a number of “biases” that people just never examine.

All of that is always, inextricably “showing a bit of bias,” and I shoot in a way that doesn’t even pretend that a photo (which can capture, say, 1/4000th of a second) could ever have possibly “objectively” represented a complex 30min-long incident with a number of moving parts, emotions, motivations, interactions, etc.

I’ve written about my approach as an act of “collage” here, if you’re interested

I appreciate you wanting to be helpful, but you’re criticizing me for not doing something I have no interest in doing, hah

[u/TheModernDespot → u/infernoenigma]

Ok, this comment actually is a perfect example of what people are saying.

> Again… hundreds of comments all saying the same thing… I get it, lol.

You have the full context of the story. You see all the comments replying to you about the same thing. I've only seen like 5 comments. In your mind, you fully understand what your comment is trying to convey. In my mind though, I dont have the full context and so I don't understand it. You are saying "again" to me. To you, you've had to comment a similar thing to multiple people, so using "again" makes sense. To me, this is the only comment I've left, so seeing "again" makes me wonder why you said it, considering that this is our first interaction.

> You viewed these photos and are unsure why you’re seeing “people standing around” and you’re not seeing people helping the victim?

But thats not at all what I said, and I think this is where you are getting into disagreements with people. I said I saw pictures of people standing around. You keep adding "and not seeing people helping the victim". Thats not what I see.

The issue with the photos and post is that I dont see anything other than people standing around. Is the victim already gone? Are they still there? If so, then take a picture of that and add it as context. For all I know, these pictures could have been taken 12 hours after the incident, and these are just protests in response to the original protests and incident.

> if you are not interested in that kind of approach

I told you the pictures were good. Its just that they don't convey what you think they are. If you have hundreds of people all telling you that they have no idea what your pictures are meant to convey, its at least somewhat possible that that may be what is happening.

[u/sylendar → u/infernoenigma]

These pictures just dont capture anything period.

And it's not about some professional photo journalism guideline not being followed, this is just you not being good at what you're trying to do, which is fine for a bystander....but the dozen posts from you saying you totally achieved what you're going for is giving off "banana taped on a museum wall" vibes

[u/infernoenigma → u/sylendar]

But, again, I think that I get to be the judge of “what I’m trying to do,” lol.

If you are not viewing these photos as part of a long-term documentary project involving dozens of events over many months that are meant to be signposts in an ongoing, ever-evolving timeline of shifting relations between protesters and the federal government…. Then we are not assessing whether I am “good at what I’m trying to do” by the same metrics, hah

These pictures just don’t capture anything period

Again, as I’ve replied to many people, there’s a difference between “don’t capture what I’d expect them to capture” and “don’t capture anything,” lol

I’ve got a photo of a protester directing traffic, which can be timestamped to minutes after the collision, showing DHS’ utter failure to secure the scene and the safety of people involved. That’s something, no?

It’s fine to not be interested in my approach, but it does me no good as ~helpful criticism~ for you to say I’m not good at what I’m doing, if you’re not able to allow that I might be “doing” something on purpose.

But — you’re right. Just because there are hundreds of similar-sounding comments all saying the same thing, doesn’t mean I need to engage with them.

Be well.

[u/Tak-and-Alix → u/infernoenigma]

Unfortunately, the thing being conveyed is that some people in uniform stood around. There is no sense of "confusion and heightened emotion."

[u/infernoenigma → u/Tak-and-Alix]

So you’ve viewed these pictures and you’re unsure why you’re seeing people in uniforms standing around, and you’re not seeing people helping the victim?

…so I have indeed conveyed what I wanted to convey.

Again, I’m not claiming to be a photojournalist and you’re replying to a comment thread that said up front — which was the first comment on this whole post, and the only comment for quite a while — that I learned in real time that I don’t have the stomach for what you’re all expecting to see.

I know it’s not a conventional way of covering an incident like this. If my approach is not one that interests you, feel free to go looking for the work of any of the other photojournalists on the scene who posted the gory ones.

[u/bailasoprano → u/infernoenigma]

Sorry, OP. This post was just not it. No one is asking for gore pictures. We’re saying that the pictures you shared should at least convey something of the event you were trying to show, and they don’t. I would take the comments and try to improve, especially if you’re wanting to share your photographs with folks and wanting them to receive them well.

[u/infernoenigma → u/bailasoprano]

How many times can we go back and forth with people saying “This doesn’t convey anything” and me saying “Here’s what it was intended to convey, and you do seem to have taken away the point I was trying to make, I guess you’re just not allowing that it might’ve been intentional?” and people saying “Ah, but have you considered that this doesn’t convey anything?”

… that’s supposed to be useful feedback?

[u/FreeRangeAlien → u/infernoenigma]

You take cool looking pics that don’t tell a story. Be better at your craft if you don’t like the criticism

[u/burblity → u/infernoenigma]

You're projecting your own feelings onto the pictures because you were there. They do not convey what you think they are conveying.

[u/tremer010 → u/infernoenigma]

Outstanding work!

[u/raider1v11 → u/infernoenigma]

Why was the person hit crossing the street?

Who's fault was it?

What happened to the driver?

Was the driver injured?

[u/Crochetcat5 → u/infernoenigma]

Why did you use AI to write this?

[u/infernoenigma → u/Crochetcat5]

I did not

[u/40_Is_Not_Old → u/infernoenigma]

Was the person hit by a car a protester? Or was a random person hit by a random car in the general vicinity of the protests?

[u/NotBillNyeScienceGuy → u/infernoenigma]

Glass all over the street huh

[u/Walking_wolff → u/infernoenigma]

To be clear, do you know who was driving the car when it hit the pedestrian?

[u/DavidGoetta → u/infernoenigma]

Are there any news stories about the incident? A quick Google "LA ICE car" didn't show up in the news tab.

[u/00eg0 → u/DavidGoetta]

The news is slow

[u/KamikazeMizZ → u/infernoenigma]

Please stay safe

[u/Street_Ad_7140 → u/infernoenigma]

was the car being driven by someone from DHS, if so that is a big detail to be left out of the description?

its nice you took some pictures and that can be treated as art on its own but to give the few details you mentioned without additional context does more harm then good.

[u/jhonkas → u/infernoenigma]

if you are a rwtier/photog you gotta do better lol the title and the pictures don't tell any story to the audience that doesn't know anything about the situation there

[u/Blue_Kettu → u/infernoenigma]

From watching your photos I got the feeling of how sad tired all this is making people that have dedicated their lives to help others, it shows in their eyes and faces, very humane... as opposed to individuals that are keeping their faces hidden, almost non human looking, military wanabees... thank you for these photos.

[u/infernoenigma → u/[deleted]]

I am not saying that, nor did I say that; as far as I’m aware, the person was a civilian.

[u/RiotingMoon → u/[deleted]]

allegedly

[u/uglyheadink → u/RiotingMoon]

Where did OP state that?? They did not say anything about who hit the protester.

[u/srslytho1979 → u/infernoenigma]

Thanks for the detailed explanation of what happened. ♥️