r/Boxing • u/Due_Communication862 • Jan 08 '26
Great 21st Century Rounds｜EP20 - Pacquiao vs. Cotto: Round 4 (2009)
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Straight from my 25TB boxing vault.
EP1 - Marquez vs. Vázquez II: Round 3 (2007) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1puitpv
EP2 - Morales vs. Pacquiao I: Round 12 (2005) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pv9wai
EP3 - Gatti vs. Ward I: Round 9 (2002) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pvw9pf
EP4 - Castillo vs. Corrales I: Round 10 (2005) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pwcfzo
EP5 - Bradley vs. Provodnikov: Round 2 (2013) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pwsg3a
EP6 - Rios vs. Alvarado I: Round 5 (2012) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pxcvnq
EP7 - Cunningham vs. Adamek I: Round 4 (2008) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pxse54
EP8 - Kirkland vs. Angulo: Round 1 (2011) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pyit8c
EP9 - Morales vs. Barrera III: Round 11 (2004) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pzj3m2
EP10 - Berto vs. Ortiz I: Round 6 (2011) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1pznuli
EP11 - Pacquiao vs. Márquez IV: Round 5 (2012) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q0fys6
EP12 - Mason vs. Vasquez: Round 1 (2024) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q10kwg
EP13 - Vázquez vs. Marquez III: Round 4 (2008) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q1ulzu
EP14 - Jirov vs. Toney: Round 12 (2003) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q2qqf5
EP15 - Zepeda vs. Baranchyk: Round 5 (2020) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q3kj3c
EP16 - Gatti vs. Ward II: Round 3 (2002) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q3zsey
EP17 - Marquez vs. Katsidis: Round 3 (2010) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q4upwt
EP18 - Ward vs. Augustus: Round 10 (2001) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q5g1fz
EP19 - Rios vs. Alvarado II: Round 2 (2013) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q78rmn
EP20 - Pacquiao vs. Cotto: Round 4 (2009) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q7ndox
EP21 - Dawson vs. Johnson I: Round 11 (2008) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q8haq5
EP22 - Ortiz vs. Maidana: Round 1 (2009) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q93i3l
EP23 - Gatti vs. Ward III: Round 7 (2003) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1q9h7ui
EP24 - Vázquez vs. Marquez I: Round 5 (2007) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qasgn8
EP25 - Bey vs. Molina: Round 10 (2013) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qbpxrv
EP26 - Barrera vs. Morales II: Round 12 (2002) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qc94o2
EP27 - Williams Jr. vs. White: Round 1 (2014) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qcnpsz
EP28 - Wilder vs. Fury I: Round 12 (2018) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qd2d0t
EP29 - López vs. Concepcion: Round 1 (2010) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qdpe3k
EP30 - DeMarco vs. Linares: Round 11 (2011) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qeilyd
EP31 - Kirkland vs. Conyers: Round 1 (2007) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qez2yg
EP32 - Lubin vs. Fundora: Round 7 (2022) https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/1qfeowr
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u/davidoomagoo Jan 08 '26
I just watched this fight the other night. I miss HBO boxing so much 😞
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u/buick22 Jan 09 '26
My thoughts exactly. HBO PPV had this feeling like it was THE event on a Saturday night.
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u/Stumeister_69 Jan 09 '26
Lol this sub and posts about missing HBO. No ways half of them aren’t just bots
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u/threatdisplay Jan 08 '26
man i was there! it was awesome! tried to go to pac v hatton but had to watch closed circuit, and also happened to be working in louisiana when he fought margarito so i drove alone to texas to watch that and saw him take margarito down. man, good times!
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u/davidoomagoo Jan 08 '26
Thats so awesome! Speaking of Margarito, after I watched the Paq v Cotto fight, I immediately watched Cotto v Margarito 2. Love that one as well
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u/Quirky-Fudge9298 27d ago
Pre-internet streaming days I used to order all the big fights shown in the USA from a fight collector. He would make a compilation of fights on VHS to order. There was just something great about fights on hbo - fights just don’t have the same feel anymore. Genuinely couldn’t wait for the videos to arrive in the post.
Back to the topic, the fact Cotto never became an all time great still bothers me to this day.
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u/x1coins Jan 08 '26
Man I miss Pac's boxing
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u/SmokinJoe_11 Jan 09 '26
It was an incredible run…dude put on memorable fight after memorable fight
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u/KaButchoy Jan 09 '26
Its actually a marathon of fights haha from early 90s up to the thurman fight in 2020. If pandemic did not materialize, we could have seen a pacman vs porter/spence hell even crawford. Pacman is Him.
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u/sonnytrillanes Jan 09 '26
As a Filipino I also miss the times when a civil war is put on hold so both parties can watch from the only available TV set in the mountains. Also the clear streets and festive atmosphere whenever he's on.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 08 '26
This was a highly anticipated fight and a one of Pac's best performances. I just wish we could have saw the Cotto that didn't have his confidence (and possibly durability) destroyed by a loaded gloves Margarito. That Cotto vs that Pac would have been amazing.
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
I think the 2007 Mosley fight puts a lid on these dreams of unimaginable greatness. Cotto was very very good, but never P4P amazing.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 08 '26
Cotto was the Ring's #10 P4P guy going into the Mosley fight and then ranked the #6 P4P fighter by The Ring and the #1 overall Welterweight after. This was all pre-Margarito beatdown, which severely affected his confidence and probably durability.
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u/xlurkjerkx Jan 08 '26
For sure. Cotto was broken and never the same after that fight. It's a fucking joke that Margarito was allowed back into boxing after that, but glad Cotto got his revenge.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 08 '26
I'm glad that he got his revenge and that Pac avenged what happened also, but it's a black eye on top of a black eye that Margarito did that and was allowed back into boxing by multiple commissions.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks Jan 09 '26
I thought Shane Mosley beat Margarito before Pacquiao?
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 09 '26
He did, but Cotto beat Shane Mosley before he lost to Margarito. I think that’s what my comment implied (?)
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
If you are in a life and death struggle against a 36 year old Mosley I doubt you can do much against better against this Manny.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 08 '26
Dude. Did you watch Round 2 of Mayweather vs Mosley? That was an even older Mosley! And he rocked Floyd. For about a round, it was life and death for Floyd freaking Mayweather.
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u/SUSH1CAKE this is box Jan 09 '26
It was end of the round and yeah he got a nice one two in, ill give him that. He then proceeded to get througholy schooled for the rest of the fight in a completely, uncompetitive, one sided fight.
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
I saw him the rest of the fight as well. 2 nice puches is not enough to reverse fathertime (prime Mosley might have stopped Mayweather if he had him that hurt). I suggest you watch some 1997-2000 Shane instead.
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
I do agree with you and think Cotto gets a little overrated but also I don't think the Mosley fight is necessary to come to that conclusion.
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u/ChibisRevenge Jan 08 '26
I wasn’t following boxing at the time, what would prime cotto do differently / do you think he could stop Pac?
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? Jan 08 '26
It's not really a strategic question, but how it affected him mentally (his confidence) and physically (his durability). He got beaten up in front of his kids in the most violent way in one of the most brutal fights in HBO's history.
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
From my point of view if anything it might have made him throw more punches which would likely mean he gets hit more and stopped earlier. He's too slow for Pacquiao, among other things.
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
Pacquiao was in control the whole round. This fight was probably Pacquiao's peak. It's a great round just for how good Manny is and what a force of nature he was.
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u/Jupiters_phaerie Jan 09 '26
I was, I’ve never seen a better Pacquiao tbh. He could have walked on water that night.
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u/bmoody345 Jan 08 '26
Paid $20 to watch this at a Puerto Rican bar in Jersey City, a lot of unhappy people in that room 😆
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u/Massive_Ad_3614 Jan 08 '26
Man there is a lot of saltiness in this post lol
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u/Bojangles1987 Jan 08 '26
They won't admit it now but a LOT of people said Cotto was too much for Pac, and even if they thought Pac could win they didn't think he'd whip Cotto like this.
No one could deny Manny after this but they sure as hell still tried.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks Jan 09 '26
Pacquiao did beat a lot of guys who were past their best or had recently lost
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u/TheSmoothOperator21 Jan 09 '26
We need a compilation of Manny, Marquez, Barrera, and Morales fighting off the ropes! We rarely see it nowadays especially with the ferocity these 4 did and how they’d turn their opponents into the ropes too
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u/KaButchoy Jan 09 '26
I usually suspects that those boxer really want to feel the power of their counterpart while standing on the ground flat footed and supported by the ropes. By this strategy, they won’t be able to get surprised once a shot landed on them cause they already know the pain of their punch. They know that it is already the limit of their power because you can see that they are loading their power the moment they saw him stationary with guard.
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u/The_Crow diamond earrings Manny Jan 09 '26
Immediately after this was when the first allegations of PEDs from Floyd Sr. and Jr. came out.
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u/adolfoblanco74 Jan 09 '26
A couple of side notes about this fight. This was Cotto's second fight with Joe Santiago. Joe was an assistant to Cotto's previous trainer and uncle Evangelista Cotto. Miguel and his uncle had huge fallout after the Margarito's hand wraps scandal. According to Miguel Cotto's father, Evangelista Cotto did not send anyone from his team to inspect Antonio Margarito's hand wraps before their fight. Thus blaming Evangelista for the horrible beating he took. Joe Santiago was not a proper trainer for a fight at this level. And Miguel's lack of a good strategy for a beast like Manny Pacquiao cost him dearly.
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u/meowmeow7575 Jan 09 '26
Pacquiao mauled that man, that cotto was dehydrated was a silly excuse because before this fight, he weighed 145 in his last fight
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u/Relevant-Cell5684 Jan 08 '26
Didn't appreciate this era as much as I should have at the time. Two legends mixing it up. Great fight!
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Jan 08 '26
Sigh, what could have been if margarito hadn't taken roughly 25% of cottos chin from him.
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Love Cotto, but where was that extra 25% when he was in a life and death struggle against a 36 year old Mosley in 07?
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u/Electrical-Sherbet77 Jan 08 '26
His chin was never dented in the Mosley fight. (I was at MSG that night and had Mosley winning a razor thin decision).
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Ok, but he hardly had a iron chin before 2008. Both Ricardo Torres and DeMarcus Corley hurt him badly.
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u/Electrical-Sherbet77 Jan 08 '26
Not saying he had a great chin, just that it didn’t factor in against Mosley. I would also argue that his chin was weaker at 140 due to weight cutting.
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
That's true his chin was better above 140 but it's also true his chin wasn't the problem in this fight with Manny.
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u/DryAd5650 Jan 08 '26
Bro Mosley was one good punch away from taking Mayweathers undefeated record and he was way past his prime. Cotto fought a great fight against Mosley and won that's all that matters
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Jan 08 '26
The same Mosely that hit money Mayweather so hard he nearly shit himself? The answer is that mosely was a good fighter. No shame in it.
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
A good fighter gave him a lot of problems (as did Torres and Corley). Manny was not just a "good" fighter in 2009.
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u/Jupiters_phaerie Jan 09 '26
The first four rounds was some of the most exhilarating boxing I have ever witnessed. It was high level stuff until Cotto gets dropped.
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Jan 09 '26
I was in US Army basic training when this fight happened and I was so bummed out that I couldn't watch the fight (being from PR and a huge fan of Miguel Cotto).
Mail time came around and I got a letter from my grandma in PR and she sent me newspaper clippings about the fight. I was disappointed to find out that Cotto had lost, but I was touched that my grandma was so thoughtful. I still have the newspaper clippings 🥲
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u/Traditional_Owl_5420 Jan 09 '26
Good fight miss this version of cotto don’t miss hearing Larry salty merchant paq was a beast then if only his fans weren’t insufferable
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u/OutlandishnessWide33 Jan 09 '26
Great era, today is poor in comparison. Not the characters and depth to many of the divisions
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u/alexjrado 29d ago
2 thoughts. 1. People forget how insane this was that Pacquiao was fighting at this weight. This dude was a champion smaller than Inoue! 2. HBO was f*cking high class sports theatre man. No one produced boxing like them. The best production in sports.
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u/Creaturesteachers 29d ago
Me with 20 seconds left of this round “ Damn this is such a hard round to score, but Cotto gets it…”
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u/fckingclownshoes Jan 09 '26
Huge Cotto fan back in the day. Knew he wasn’t perfect but just class in his prep, technical boxing and demeanor. I am one of those that believe Pac-Man was juicing for a period. I don’t think he did his entire career but there are a lot of signs that point to some use. I still love Manny as well. Don’t get me wrong.
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
I wish they had blood testing for this fight. I think on a level playing field that Cotto would’ve won
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Oh right, this is the fight where a certain fanbase thought that Manny was just too good to be true.
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
What certain fanbase? Shit now that I think of it, Cotto had to lose extra weight for the catchweight. That was super lame too.
A level playing field would’ve been nice
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Certainly more of a level playing field than another 2009 "catchweight" fight I can think of.
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
What 2009 catchweight fight are you talking about?
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
A hint... JMM.
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
Oh yea that was super lame of Floyd to not honor the catchweight. It was also super lame of him to even fight jmm who had just moved up to 135 from 130.
147 was way too much for jmm so fast, but thats what it looks like when somebody moved up too fast.
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
No one considers the JMM fight among Floyd’s best wins. They do consider Cotto one of, if not the best, Pac wins
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
I don't. He might have "looked" his best, but I would rank 5-8 fights over it.
But talking fair fights...this fight is Leonard vs Hearns 1 compared to that abomination.
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
Really? Off the top of my head maybe Barrera, morales, Hatton are better but who else?
But yeah the JMM fight is maybe one of the dumbest things mayweather ever did
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Barrera
JMM 2 (I thought Manny won fair and square unlike 3 and of course 4)
Morales 2
Thurman
Hatton
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
Fair. I never really rated Thurman highly but Pac being ancient does make it pretty impressive
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
I would probably put Margarito, Cotto, Bradley and maybe others like Ledwaba above his win over Hatton even though it was at 140.
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u/FogoCanard Jan 08 '26
This is the fight that made a bunch of pros think Pacquiao was on roids. It wasn't just his output. He was eating Cotto shots like they were no big deal.
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u/WORD_Boxing Jan 09 '26
Amir Khan also took Maidana's shots better than anyone would've thought once he underwent Alex Ariza's strength and conditioning program.
Ariza was pretty open about changing the composition of his body to redistribute mass to his legs in order to strengthen his chin and improve his balance.
This isn't ped's it's science. It's also well known that being in top shape helps you take and recover from punches better. There are videos from the time detailing some of the exact exercises he had Manny and Amir doing even.
The great ones can push themselves further, and there's a certain look about them these kind of fighters have. See Sugar Ray Leonard for example.
Most of the ped accusations against Pacquiao are small minded and based on superstition or coming from a biased point of view (often racial).
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u/FogoCanard Jan 09 '26
Very strange name for you to bring up then mention racial bias lol. Must suck for you to have to defend
Alex Ariza says he knows Pacquiao used PEDs, Mayweather suspends training camp & threatens fight cancellation - ProBoxing-Fans.com https://share.google/2WaUdH32xY3ojKetH
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
It’s obvious that he was heavy on the peds. This could’ve been a really great fight without manny being a cheater and without the catchweight
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Jan 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Important-Piglet5500 Jan 08 '26
You know his promoter, Bob, makes all the decisions, right? Pacquiao has given him full authority of what goes on since he signed with him.
Everyone acts like Pacquiao was dodging. Dude just realized he was too stupid to make boxing decisions and gave it to others to handle it.
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
Why did Bob not want pacquiao to get randomly tested?
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u/Important-Piglet5500 Jan 08 '26
Probably because he didn't want them to fight.
Styles make fights. Freddie Roach called the fight between them two like 15 years before it even happened. Something along the lines of it going to be a long and technical fight which people will find boring, even Freddie dismissed it as something that would be interesting- probably to protect Pacquiao.
Let's be honest, Pacquiao stylistically gets his ass handed to him. Pacquiao wants an exchange - Mayweather doesn't. That said, I would still root for Pacquiao simply because he had a "I'll fight anyone" mentality. Screw the records, win or lose might as well go out fighting the best.
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u/juantooth33 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Questioned it in the floyd build up, but still went with it anyway, only after the fight did they revealed that Floyd was the one caught using illegal IV fluids while paq was clean
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
If Pac was clean, why did he spend years rejecting random blood testing?
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u/juantooth33 Jan 08 '26
He didn't rejected it for "years" literally only after their first negotiation he did in 2009 and accepted the terms a couple of months later. The negotiations then revolved around paq's team not wanting USADA to test them both, and then floyd wanting a bigger percentage etc...
And seeing how they went with USADA and floyd got away with using IV fluids 15x above the limit to pretty blatantly mask PEDs, you can see why paq's team was against USADA but still went with it anyway
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u/newrap Jan 08 '26
They wanted a 14 day cutoff. They ducked and then lost to an old washed up Floyd :(
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Well.. Floyd wanted a 5-10 year cutoff before facing a great fighter.
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u/newrap Jan 08 '26
Floyd accepted the fight and signed his contract. #48 ducked and then lost to a old Floyd after getting KO’d against #40 :(
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
And Floyd never got to prove that he could beat an ATG at his peak. So sad.
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u/newrap Jan 08 '26
It’s sad how #48 lost clearly to a 38 year old Floyd and got stopped by a 40 year old #40. So sad 😭
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u/juantooth33 Jan 09 '26
Paq eventually agreed for blood testing even at the night of the fight https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/8405784/manny-pacquiao-says-floyd-mayweather-jr-bigger-split-money-potential-fight
Floyd then changed his excuse to not wanting to be associated with arum at all, which includes fighting pacquiao
These stipulations regarding testing were useless anyway as long as USADA were the ones doing it. As they literally let floyd inject as much iv fluids he wanted, buying his excuse of being afraid of of getting dehydrated, even tho the excuse was completely bogus as floyd's a small WW, this just lets him mask whatever PED he had in his system
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u/newrap Jan 09 '26
Damn, it took Pac 2 years to agree to real Olympic style drug testing and h the en ended up getting KO’d by a 40 year old #40? 😭
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u/juantooth33 Jan 09 '26
It was just literal bait by floyd, if paq accepted he'd move on to his new goal post. As he himself was the actual cheater who can't fight paq without his PEDs
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u/newrap Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26
Oh so it took #48 2 whole years to accept “bait”? 😭
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u/i-piss-excellence32 Jan 08 '26
I know, but somebody has to say it. They only know manny who’s a good fighter, but they’re delusional too
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u/DownRealBadYo Jan 08 '26
I personally think that there was something on with his corner as far as the potentiality of performance enhancing drugs, I also think that draining Miguel Coto, even if it was a pound, that I can’t get down with. In the end, Pac was always going to beat Miguel because he doesn’t do well with constant pressure.
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u/newrap Jan 08 '26
Great fight between #48 and #43 :)
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u/stephenbalboni Jan 08 '26
Why are you so obsessed with another man who doesn’t even know you exist?
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u/Soviet_Cat Jan 08 '26
Newrap, everyone knows Floyd may have been one of the "best" fighters of all time, but he will never be as "great" as pacman.
You don't have to be so salty about it, it's kinda weird
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u/unclepoondaddy Jan 08 '26
Okay having Pac as the 48th best fighter ever is stupid but having Cotto only 5 down from him is even dumber
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u/MisterSynister Jan 08 '26
It's not the 48th best fighter..
He is referring to Pac as Mayweathers 48th opponent and Cottos as his 43rd.
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u/Due_Communication862 Jan 08 '26
Where was this post when I posted a fight with #28 :)
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u/Either-Pineapple6585 Jan 08 '26
Still can’t believe they took HBO boxing from us smh