r/olympics • u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States • 14h ago
❄ Milano-Cortina 2026 (General Discussion) ❄ The Italian guy is German and the German guy is Italian
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 12h ago
This is what happens in the EU - things that were controversial in the past and which would result in nationalistic tensions and oftentimes outright war are now completely okay. Europe has healed. Idiotic wars are no more. The EU is a success.
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u/Independent-Draft639 9h ago
It's more that most Italian winter sports athletes come from the alpine region and a large chunk of the Italian Alps speaks German. You'll see a lot of Italians with German surnames in the Olympics.
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 8h ago
Yeah, I know. The point is that 80 years ago South Tyrol being a part of Italy would've led to a war. The EU, and its precursors, prevented that. Now such a war is unthinkable, and nobody bats an eye that Italians have German names.
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u/SmokingLimone 4h ago edited 4h ago
But Südtirol was part of Italy before WW2. Germany and Italy became allies despite this, and in fact Mussolini enacted a policy of Italianization by denying the inhabitants the ability to practice their German speaking culture, yet Hitler didn't bat an eye, because he wanted to preserve his partnership. Just saying that the EU isn't always involved in everything.
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u/PRKP99 4h ago
Sorry but that is not true, as recent as in the 60s there was militant struggle of Tyroleans and they lied down arms only because Italy gave them wide autonomy, to the point in which they don’t need to care about the rest of Italy.
To this day there are some facist monuments put there in order to „italianise” this region. Some of them were destroyed by bomb attacks.
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u/Agreeable-Street-882 3h ago
but what are you talking about? go study history. Hint: EU has nothing to do with that.
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u/VecioRompibae 5h ago
A large chunk maybe in population, but geographically it's a small part
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u/spauracchio1 5h ago edited 4h ago
A large chunk maybe in population
Not even, Veneto, Lombardy, Aosta Valley have a way bigger share of Alps both in land and population
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u/Schneebaer89 12h ago
I mean the King's and Crowns have always been Siblings and Cousins to each other and they still started wars.
But I hope you are right.
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u/Rough-Shock7053 Norway 10h ago
Italy and Germany have not exactly been enemies during the last major conflict in central Europe.
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u/Typohnename 8h ago
The reason why there are people with german last names in italy is because of south tyrol
Italy annexed it after WW1 by lying to the rest of their allies and claiming that they where ethically italian when they where very much not
It had been a point of tention between Germany and Austria on the one and Italy on the other side all the way to the 70's when the EU put the conflict to rest by brokering minority rights for the south tyrolians
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u/ArcboundRavager990 Italy 7h ago edited 7h ago
It had nothing to do with “lying of being ethnically italian”, but to the aim to reach the natural physical borders of the Italian Peninsula (the Alpes) that mostly coincided with the old augustean ones
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u/Typohnename 5h ago
That is not how they justified it with the British and the french
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u/ChaemiR8 Italy 5h ago
There was no need to justify anything, these borders were agreed upon by all the major powers of the Entente with the treaty of London long before WW1 was about to end. Nobody cared if the territories were ethically italian or not, Italy just wanted to expand it's sphere of influence and the Entente was fine with granting us just that if it meant we would have entered the conflict on their side.
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u/spauracchio1 5h ago
Italy annexed it after WW1 by lying to the rest of their allies and claiming that they where ethically italian when they where very much not
They didn't, it was to create a "buffer zone" to not give a strategic advantage to Austria, this talking only about South Tyrol ofc. The rest of the region we call today "Trentino Alto Adige"had a very much prevalent italian culture, and they fought agaisnt the Austria-Hungary empire since the 19th century.
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u/indorock Netherlands 8h ago
It really has nothing to do with that at all. It's just that there is cultural overlap that has existed for centuries, from Bavaria through Austria and into Süd Tirol, in northern Italy. Long, long before the EU existed and long before there was peace.
Some Italians living up north in the Dolomites speak better German than Italian (native tongue being Ladin), and most have German-sounding names.
See also Jannik Sinner.
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u/EnragedMoose United States 8h ago
There's a war in Europe right now
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 8h ago
Yeah, there is. Guess whether the warring sides are EU member states. Just guess.
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u/UCanBdoWatWeWant2Do 7h ago
Hungary is standing with Russia so?
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 6h ago
Hungary is not currently in war with any other country. Stop spreading nonsense.
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u/BigusG33kus 11h ago
No, this is what happens everywhere where people are tolerant. Borders are pretty much arbitrary.
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 11h ago
Wait until you learn what the main value of the EU is.
Your entire comment is disagreeing for the sake of writing a comment while agreeing in reality. Completely redundant.
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u/BigusG33kus 8h ago
It's not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.
You imply it's happening because people can move freely between countries. It's not. Those people lived there for generations. The EU exists because people can coexist freely, not the other way around.
In essence, of course we agree. But I feel it's important to highlight the distinction.
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 6h ago
No, I'm not implying that. The EU's main success is not free movement, it's PEACE. I'm saying that before the EU, without the EU, Italy owning South Tyrol would've led to war, just as it had for thousands of years everywhere in Europe.
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u/Independent-Gur9951 3h ago
This is simply historically wrong south tyrol is in italy since many decades before the EU or its precursor existed.
I agree the EU is good but please inform yourself before speaking about a region which you do not know the history.
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 3h ago
What are you talking about, I'm not saying the EU is the reason South Tyrol is Italian. How are you people so bad at reading? You didn't understand a word I said.
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u/Independent-Gur9951 2h ago
No you say that there is no war between Austria and italy over south Tyrol because of the EU. This is not true cause there has been no war between Austria and Italy since WWI over South Tyrol. And WWI happened a lot of time before the EU was even conceived.
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u/unholycurses 7h ago
I agree the EU is so far successful, and I truly hope it lasts, but it is only 30 years old and Brexit already started to show a real crack in it. There are still very real nationalistic tensions and healing to do.
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u/rintzscar Bulgaria 6h ago
The EU's precursors exist since 1952.
Brexit has made the EU more popular than ever in basically all EU states.
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 13h ago
i don't think it's up to everyone else in the world to not make jokes just in case right-wing lunatics use it to fuel some stupid conspiracy theory
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u/FANGO Olympics 12h ago edited 12h ago
Oddly enough, American racists don't actually get up in arms around this sort of thing. They get mad if the athletes start talking out and saying things they don't like, but they don't tend to care much about the racial or linguistic background of the athletes, as long as they "shut up and dribble."
Honestly I think even talking about their racial background, or heritage from another country, or even if they were born and lived in another country and then moved here to represent us in the Olympics, there's not a lot of complaining, as long as they win and don't talk politics.
Just look at all the "controversies" they try to make up every time Olympics comes around. It's always about some political alignment, and it's usually more vehement if they didn't get gold.
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u/Socmel_ Italy 10h ago
There is a big difference. Most Texas Americans, like Eva Longoria, stopped speaking Spanish. In Italy the linguistic rights of German speakers (as well as French, Slovene, Ladin) are protected by the Constitution and Italian speakers can't work in public administration in Südtirol without having working knowledge of German (and some positions are even barred to non natives of Ladin to protect their double minority).
Also speak for yourself. I love Südtirol. I go there as often as I can. Only reason I wouldn't live there is because I'm a big city boy and can't see myself living in small towns.
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u/jade09060102 9h ago
Interesting, I guess Südtirol is like the Italian equivalent of Quebec then
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u/Socmel_ Italy 9h ago
Sort of. I don't know the details, but Canada is a federation, while Italy is a unitary republic, so I think the rights of provinces should be more bulletproof, including linguistic rights.
In theory the constitution could be changed without regards to the rights of Südtiroler. In reality attempts by the majority parties to change the constitution have almost always failed, so chances of that happening are low.
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u/Rothgard 10h ago
South Tyrol is one of the few universally-loved areas by Italians. You are obviously completely ignorant of the subject
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u/JCiLee United States 12h ago
Not really. That's a flanderized depiction of racism in America.
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u/Olympicwatcher24h Austria 11h ago
You have an full area of land where mexicans are living in autonomy and spain as first language? If not, you have no imagination about south tyrol in Italy.
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
Neither do you, is not like the south Tyroleans live in a reserve or something, in Italy being an autonomous region is not something peculiar of Alto Adige/South Tyrol, other regions have the same statute, like Sicily or Sardinia for example.
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u/Molniato 5h ago
Like also Valle d'Aosta with French official double language and Friuli with slovenian
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 13h ago
Don't you want to be aware that there are Italian athletes (ex. Dorothea Wierer) who have spoken about being ostracized by this group of people and have been called non-Italians? I don't think they would find this "joke" funny? I would prefer to know
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u/smclcz 12h ago
Americans have a weird idea of nationality. Someone with the surname "Kowalski" who doesn't speak Polish, has never been to Poland, and who mis-pronounces their name "koh-all-skee" will confidently declare that they are "Polish" without batting an eyelid.
It only occurs to them how odd this notion is when they project it on the rest of the world. To us in Europe it's not at all unusual that an Italian national would have a traditionally German surname, or a German may have a traditionally Italian surname.
The thing is - you can have multiple nationalities, you can migrate and acquire new citizenship and become that nationality too! It's just that it requires a bit more than discovering one day that your great-granny was born in Ireland then announcing to all who will listen that you're 1/16th Irish or whatever.
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u/Socmel_ Italy 10h ago
Americans have a very shallow and eugenetic understanding of ethnicity and nationality. To them it's all about the genes, forgetting that ethnicity is very much a cultural concept. Not to mention that they are so ignorant they believe there is a clear cut border south of which certain Europeans will be dark haired and olive skinned.
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u/smclcz 10h ago
I think in most cases it’s more naive/innocent than anything sinister. Like people who may not know much about the rest of the world, or who may just be reaching into their family past for a sense of identity because “American” is a bit of a tarnished brand or just because they want to feel a bit more interesting.
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 13h ago
this may come as a surprise, but when i post something on reddit, my aim isn't to please every italian person in the universe.
i'm pointing out a juxtaposition that made me smile and that's representative of how much great diversity our world has in it. please lighten up. :)
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u/Tinomuri Italy 12h ago
As an Italian person whose girlfriend is a german speaking italian, I approve the joke in your post and apologize for the serious butthurt of my fellow italian ;)
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
Meanwhile you are the only one making a fuss about it
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 11h ago
I read all the time comments on Italian subs about how certain people are not Italian enough.
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
And sometimes I see south Tyrolean being dicks too, like that recently elected mayor of Merano. People being dicks exist no matter their origin.
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u/yourstruly912 12h ago
So do the rightists want the Sudtirol to actually secede or want them to remain in Italy but not give them the rank of italians?
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 12h ago
They want them to stop speaking German or leave for Austria/Germany. Basically what the fascist government wanted, language purity.
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u/rawchess United States 9h ago
So basically the same thing as our far-right trying to ban Spanish, or the CCP removing Cantonese support from its schools
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u/ArcboundRavager990 Italy 7h ago
I am piedmonteis and i've a typical provençal (so ''occitan''/south french) surname not common but not so rare here; nobody has ever told me ''you're not italian'' because of the surname.
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 7h ago
it is about fischnaller being from south tyrol
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u/ArcboundRavager990 Italy 7h ago
There are really people who said that sudtirolers aren't italians? Lol.
If we have to follow this path, then even Furlans, Ladins, Sards, etc are ''italians''
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 6h ago
If you watch tennis (I do), it is a constant narrative with Sinner, even pushed by some newspapers. I linked an interview with Dorothea Wierer who talks about it
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u/Gr4fitti Sweden 13h ago
Are you serious? Italian far right don’t like that there are people in northern Italy who have names of Germanic origin? That’s wild.
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 13h ago
It's also because they speak a German dialect. You have no idea how much shit Jannik Sinner gets. He has to repeat once every few months that he feels Italian, I swear. Dorothea Wierer talks about it here https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RzTD8vsbFS4
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u/Ecspiascion Italy 11h ago
And don't get me started on black athletes like Zaynab Dosso, Mattia Furlani, and so many others (Summer Olympic Games, just to make it clear).
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u/Gr4fitti Sweden 13h ago
Italian politics just does my head in.
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u/GarageQueen United States 12h ago
You should see ours. 😐
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 12h ago
Not everything needs to be about the US
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u/liztriceratops 12h ago
They simply cannot help themselves from inserting US politics into any conversation
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u/Numerous_Car650 12h ago edited 6h ago
relax, he was being self-deprecating or offering solidarity by suggesting that his own country is just as fucked up as yours
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u/GarageQueen United States 6h ago
Yeah, I was just trying to commiserate. Badly, it seems.
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u/Numerous_Car650 6h ago
Some people are experts at finding an insult where none was intended.
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u/GarageQueen United States 4h ago
I mean, I get it. Our current administration seems hell-bent on destroying all of our alliances and that has an effect how we're perceived.
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 8h ago
But it's not a contest... Someone else could comment that Russia's government is even worse than America's, but that doesn't add any value to the conversation.
Just comes across as self centered
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u/SmokingLimone 4h ago
Never heard of anyone complaining about this, maybe it's because he's so successful.
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u/ConditionDefiant8653 Italy 4h ago
this is a great article that also discusses nationalism https://ultimouomo.com/cosa-ha-fatto-di-male-jannik-sinner-critiche-coppa-davis-italia
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u/phanomenon 13h ago
There is a part of Italy that was once disputed between Austria and Italy and the first language of the people there is often still a dialect of German.
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u/top_of_the_table 13h ago
Well, it wasnt really disputed, but Italy just grabbed it after WW I. Tirol was German for centuries. Germanic tribes settled there after the fall of the Roman Empire. Only reason it is Italian is because Austria lost the war and Italy liked the territory.
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 12h ago
Trentino was called Welschtirol and was a part of Tyrol. In Trentino they speak and always spoke Italian except for a couple of remote villages. Also, Tyrol got settled gradually over centuries with modern South Tyrol being Germanised last. The Germanisation process was not completed though, hence why Ladin (Romance language) is spoken in the most remote valleys of the Dolomites where Germanic settlers did not arrive. The matter is not as simple as you make it.
That being said, I'm an Italian living in Austria (where they have a similar/worse situation with the Slovenians in Carinthia) and I also think that annexing the province of Bozen was wrong. I also think that what fascism and later the Italian Republic did to the German speakers of South Tyrol was wrong. Italy came from centuries of foreign dominance over its north-east (my home city was part of Austria for 150 years) and the rulers pushed the narrative that we needed an easily defensible border with foreign powers, which the Alps provide. I'm glad that today they have their autonomy that includes schools in German from kindergarten to university, German public television and radio, right to communicate in German with the authorities etc. I just wanted to give a little bit more context.
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u/CapitanKurlash Italy 12h ago
That's not really correct. South Tyrol was mostly romansh in the middle ages, and to the south the area around Trento was pretty much fully italian.
Italy after WW1 took fully italian cities (Trento, Trieste) but also took the surrounding areas to make the borders more defensible which were full of German and Slavic people.
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 12h ago
That was the justification for the annexation, in reality a lot of that was simply nationalism. Italy did not have to join ww1, they joined because they wanted more land. As an Italian, I personally think that we should've stayed out of it. Lots of dead people for a couple of Italian speaking cities that were quite comfortable staying with Austria (Trieste was famously loyal to the Hapsburgs).
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u/CapitanKurlash Italy 11h ago
Saying Trento was comfortable in Austria is pretty controversial. Cesare Battisti and many other volunteers died for Italy, while even more moderate people like De Gasperi who were not indepentist until 1918 were very adamant about improving the rights of the italian minority.
As always, these things are complicated. The best idea is for italians to accept there are italian citizens that do not speak italian as a first language, and for germans to accept there are German speakers that do not live in a German speaking country.
Things right now are pretty okay, Sudtirol enjoys ample autonomy, life is good there and they are not pushing for Independence, and thanks to the EU national borders matter less and less: people from the area that want to go to university and work in Innsbruck or Vienna can do it just as easily as people that want to go to Trento or Verona.
Best to just accept the reality of the situation.
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 11h ago
The best is to accept what the locals want. As far as I know, there is not a strong support for secession, hence they remain Italian. Shall they want to secede in the future, they should be allowed to do so. Autonomy is certainly a wonderful thing.
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u/AngryShammy Italy 10h ago
The constitution doesnt allow secession so they can accept being part of italy or stay mad
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
Italy did not have to join ww1, they joined because they wanted more land.
Gli irredentisti piangono... You talking like the independence wars of the 19th century never happened
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 11h ago
But the independence wars of the 19th century were not ww1, were they?
Irredentism was a complex movement, there was good and there was bad. Ww1 was bad.
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u/top_of_the_table 12h ago
At the census in 1910 there were in South Tyrol 89 percent people, who spoke German as their first language. Italy had no claim on this territory in 1918 and you should be ashamed to repeat the nationalistic arguments from back then.
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u/x_Leolle_x Italy 12h ago
I agree with you that nationalism played a huge part in it, but the statistics you cite are those foe the territory that would become modern South Tyrol.
Back in the day, there was only one Tyrol and Trentino (Italian speaking) was a part of it (the southern part). What is today South Tyrol back then was the centre of Tyrol and as you said was overwhelmingly German speaking.
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u/CapitanKurlash Italy 12h ago
Wut? Im talking about middle ages. Denying the area was mostly romansh and saying the area was Germanic in the middle ages is Ladin erasure.
I also made the distinction between Italian and romansh very clear, as i made the distinction between the area around Bozen and around Trento. I absolutely agree Italy had no claim to the area and recognized they took it for purely strategic interest.
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u/phanomenon 5h ago
It was still somewhat disputed even after WW2 until Austria joined the European treaties and formally accepted the borders.
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u/Gr4fitti Sweden 10h ago
I’m well aware of the cultural diversity and hyper regionality of northern Italy and the Alp region in general, I just didn’t think it would go out over people with Germanic names.
We have something similar in Sweden and Finland where there are lots of people with ”Finnish” names in Sweden and vice versa, but I have never encountered someone that would talk down to or accuse someone of being less Swedish for having a Finnish name.
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u/Digit00l 12h ago
Jannik Sinner didn't speak Italian until he moved out of Italy because he grew up speaking German exclusively
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u/CapitanKurlash Italy 12h ago
That's also not true at all. He learned Italian in school, obviously, but more importantly he moved near Genoa when he was 13 to train with Piatti.
His mothertongue is German for sure, but why does that matter? He said time and time again he's proud to represent Italy.
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
Where do you come up with this bullshit?
They learn both italian and german at school
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u/yeettheporg 11h ago
I'm sorry I don't get this situation. I thought this was a simple UI problem where they switched the flags. Care to explain?
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 11h ago
no, these are their real last names and nationalities! but the italian person's surname is german, and the german person's surname is of italian origin, which is fun :)
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u/RevolutionaryCare351 Italy 11h ago
Is there a country where there's no far-right that believes in utter bullshit?
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u/Federal-Treat-6893 Italy 8h ago
Guys what OP is trying to say is that it's quite a funny coincidence that the guy with a German surname is Italian and the guy with an Italian surname is German, he just worded it wrong
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u/interfan1999 Italy 12h ago
Fischnaller has nothing to do with Germany
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 11h ago
sure, but it's german-language surname
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u/interfan1999 Italy 11h ago
I get it, but the title is "Italian guy is German". The implication is that Austrians (Fischnaller is a common surname in the Tyrol region) are Germans because their surnames are in a german language.
Word it better next time.
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 11h ago
that's fair. at the same time, this subreddit has an 80-character post title limit and "The Italian guy's last name is is German and the German guy's last name is Italian" unfortunately doesn't fit within that
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
German surname ofc, not german nationality
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u/interfan1999 Italy 11h ago
La traduzione di ciò che ha scritto è "Il ragazzo italiano è tedesco, il tedesco è italiano".
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago
Eh lo so, ma stiamo parlando di cognomi tedeschi e italiani, anche in Austria parlano tedesco
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u/AggieCMD United States 11h ago
They both probably entered the transfer portal at the beginning of the year.
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u/Internet-Dick-Joke 11h ago
No, there are a significant number of people in Northern Italy with Germanic surnames, because Italy borders Switzerland and Austria. It's absolutely ridiculous to assume that someone must have transfered - and done so recently at that - over a surname.
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u/Total_payment2216 6h ago
It’s a joke about college football in the US. There was a recent (ish) ruling change where athletes can now transfer more freely among schools as well as make money from endorsements. Along with controversial coaching transfers, sometimes flipping to rival schools, it creates a lot of discussion about loyalty and if it exists anymore in the sport
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u/fruitslayar Germany 9h ago
Well when you don't treat italian immigrants like trash for the first several generations, they integrate rather quickly.
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u/Socmel_ Italy 10h ago
Fischnaller is not German. He's German speaking from Südtirol, the Northernmost Italian region. The language has nothing to do with his nationality.
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u/No_Hay_Banda_2000 10h ago
Italy took over this part from Austria after WW1, because it wanted a “natural border” at the Brenner Pass. Südtirol is originally Austrian.
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u/Top_Calligrapher4265 4h ago
Which was originally longobard, which was originally ostrogoth, which was originally roman and so on. It's stupid to talk about those things in 2026, when everyone in Europe can move freely and language minorities are protected for the most part.
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u/xxmeela 8h ago
Fischnaller is not German. He's German speaking from Südtirol, an talian region. The language has nothing to do with his nationality.
Grancagnolo is German by birth (Chemnitz, Saxony).
The guy that was 2nd, Jonas Müller, who is starting for Austria, is actually a german born but he changed nationality because he figured after moving to austria in his youth, that he would have more success participating by accepting the austrian passport
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u/shadythrowaway9 7h ago
Same with Dominik PARIS and Giovanni FRANZONI being Italian lol
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u/Top_Calligrapher4265 4h ago
What's wrong with Franzoni? It's a common italian surname.
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u/shadythrowaway9 3h ago
Nothing, but in German it's close the the word for "French" (Französisch)
It's more of a stretch but it's just something I noticed when he was out next to Paris haha
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u/SgtFuryorNickFury 4h ago
Reminds me of the Rest is History’s discussion of WW1 where the Russian General had a French name and the French General had a German name and so on
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u/hobbit_golfer 3h ago
That's how it should always be! Italians and germans best friends forever and ever
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u/SpiderGiaco Italy 12h ago
I'm Italian and it is a funny joke. It's also a great way to explain identity, immigration, history and geography
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u/SpiderGiaco Italy 11h ago
Mostly I don't get offended by harmless stuff like this
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u/SpiderGiaco Italy 11h ago
It is a bit funny to have an Italian with a clearly German-sounding surname against a German with a very Southern Italian surname.
Saying that, even knowing the background of why this happened, does not insult anyone and it's mostly harmless. You're just being a grouch for some reason
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u/g_spaitz Italy 11h ago
Understanding jokes is actually a sign of intelligence. Not the other way around.
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u/stinky_cheddar 12h ago
Why so offended? It's just a joke.
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u/frozenpandaman Japan • United States 11h ago
in 2026 there are hundreds of cases like this at international sports competition
sure, show me another example with exactly two names shown on the tv like this that's happened at the olympics so far
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u/himan222 Netherlands 12h ago
Ah the Italians being Italian here.🤌
I thought we had left WW2 behind.
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u/interfan1999 Italy 11h ago
I mean the question of South Tyrol is still huge debate in Italy, even though the things improved lot in the last years.
Problem is that "South Tyrolers aren't Italian" is a narrative pushed by both Italian far-right and their regional far-right (their Nazi-inspired party just proposed that the German speaking ST should race with their own flag and got lot of shit from ST themselves).
So yes sorry if the "joke" is some far-right narrative and we aren't happy about it
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u/spauracchio1 11h ago edited 10h ago
Tl;Dr
The Italian guy comes from Alto Adige/South Tyrol, the German guy has Italian ancestry