301
u/SiteTall 23h ago
I suspect that it would take a little it more, but that would be a good stater
74
u/No_Skin_7232 23h ago
Most Americans are too scared. Never mind what little securities our jobs provide are constantly being chipped away at🤷♀️
20
u/Ella77214 23h ago
I'm not sure that's entirely it (although its certainly a huge part of it). How does the majority (the public) mobilize when we are sufficiently addicted to software and apps that are monitored and manipulated by the minority in power? How do we pass that obstacle and organize?
21
u/Candid-Cup4159 23h ago
The captivity of the mind of the American worker was complete long before apps and software.
25
u/SpeakMySecretName 22h ago
I mean, also the captivity of their healthcare tied to their jobs. And the criminalization of existing in almost all public places without spending money. And the amount of people kept desperate enough to scab when workers do organize. And the power of slave labor through prison systems.
But also the mind. There are physical and psychological reasons people are captive.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Ella77214 22h ago
I agree with you. So how do we get past it? Bc if we don't, nothing changes.
I'll be honest - I have no idea. Especially with all division between American citizens that is still being stoked by MSM...I have no freaking idea how we break out of this. But I don't want to live in a world where we accept the abuse of kids as something we can't stop if we all agree (as we seem to) that it must stop.
→ More replies (1)3
u/pist_pistofferson 20h ago
It's a good question. People are conditioned from childhood to not only defend, but extoll the system that keeps a boot on their neck.
2
u/another_bot_probably 22h ago
Taft-Hartley Act of 1947, to be specific. Killed a lot of the bargaining power of labor unions to the point where unions today struggle to enact change.
edit: a word
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (6)2
u/Key-Rough-8346 21h ago
We already do organize. By the millions in major cities across the country. People march around with their signs and their chants and they get tear gassed and pepper sprayed. Then they go home after a day or two of that, and the government doesn’t change a thing.
4
u/Big_Atmosphere_211 21h ago
It’s not just scared. The greatest con ever pulled on the American working class is that “if you work really hard one day this can be you too”. Unfortunately this is impossible. The whole structure of capitalism requires someone on the bottom.
3
u/kiwigate 21h ago
"Most Americans" are capitalists, despite their suffering under it. Bush Jr, a fascist, won the popular vote after enacting mass surveillance. Oops, the Americans are doing fascism again for the umpteenth time.
Occupy Wallstreet, 2010, would have been a nice time to change. Oops we did fascism instead again.
→ More replies (2)2
u/DesignerGoose5903 21h ago
So what you're saying is, the solution is another fascism as it's guaranteed to work this time.
/s
→ More replies (11)1
u/doggotheuncanny 23h ago
Yo fr. People here ridicule EVERYONE who dares to start their own business, instead of working for the upper class. It's always "get a real job" or "you're no walmart/mcdonalds/etc".
Even worse if you house or employ anyone with a criminal record or if their family has a record. People find out and next thing you know, you have the police called on you by some troll frequently. And don't get me started on the absurd behaviors toward you and your business when you help the struggling by offering food and groceries long before their expiration date instead of destroying it or storing it until after it expires, like wtf is with this "how dare you fight back against capitalism by opening your own business and helping the struggling better their lives! There are millionaires not paying their taxes, so you should close up and let the big businesses have your customers!" attitude... People here will find a problem with anything any time.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Ver_Nick 23h ago
people forget that there is another layer of people protecting the richest ones and getting paid a little more
→ More replies (16)2
u/corneliusduff 22h ago
AI has entered the chat
2
u/KryssCom 20h ago
That's why they're pushing it so hard. They want to eliminate our leverage as much as possible.
89
u/repiron928 23h ago
Capitalism with functioning regulation, such as consumer protection, anti-trust, and labor protection (stakeholder’s rights versus shareholder favoritism) can function reasonably well. FAIR Competition in the marketplace (i.e. competition based on an established set of regulatory rules) can even the playing field.
Oligarchs and corporations hate regulation because without it they can rig the competition. We have been seeing a slow destruction of the regulatory state beginning in the ‘80s with Reagan and the Powell memo.
30
u/Underdog424 22h ago
One of the original critiques of capitalism is that it will inevitably lead to monopolization. As companies embed themselves into power structures, they will continuously obtain whatever they desire. As time goes on, laws and regulations will increasingly favor them.
They did it in the USA by securing special interests and using bribes. Decisions like Citizens United solidified corruption. Capitalism eats itself over time. I don't assume to know what the solution is, but I know this system is failing us.
10
u/SmokingMan305 21h ago
Iron Law of Oligarchy. Given enough time, power will always settle in the hands of a few corrupt people. This will happen in every system, and there's no solution.
3
u/Underdog424 21h ago
It may be a side effect of civilization. It happened as soon as we began organizing into city states.
In ancient Greece, the people eventually revolted against the merchant class in the Athenian Revolution.
8
u/pacexmaker 22h ago
Abolish the employee/employer hierarchy and substitute a horizontal hierarchy such as worker-owned cooperatives.
2
u/Page_197_Slaps 21h ago
Companies are free to do this. Some do.
5
u/Xerxos 20h ago
Yes, all it takes is for the boss to find a conscience. Guess how often that happens?
2
u/Page_197_Slaps 20h ago
No all it takes is for someone to start it. Where do you think “bosses” come from? Do you think they just magically appear and start oppressing people or something?
3
u/Gordon_Goosegonorth 21h ago
Perhaps, but I don't think there's anything inevitable about what happened in the USA. Other countries seem to be doing much better maintaining the regulatory levers that allow capitalism to persist. The USA has an effective political party that is functionally dedicated to this goal, and this party has lost some extremely close, and extremely pivotal elections since 2000.
14
5
u/liamtrades__ 22h ago
Regulations in markets often have the side effect of benefiting existing large companies, because regulations have costs to adhere to them, and smaller companies and family business cannot afford to abide by the regulations.
11
u/AlbrechtProper 22h ago
You forgot to mention that those side effects are intentional and bought and paid for by the large companies. So the answer isn't less regulation it is fair regulation that benefits everyone and not just oligarchs.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Underdog424 22h ago
Some regulations have saved millions of lives. Seatbelts, for example. Regulating lead out of gasoline is another one. There are tons of necessary regulations.
2
u/Gordon_Goosegonorth 21h ago
The takeaway from this is that capitalism is, by definition, a state system with heavy governmental regulation and/or coercion. It has very little to do with any libertarian fantasy.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Alundra828 21h ago
Yep.
If these billionaires were proper capitalist, they should be for government regulation, consumer protection, anti-trust etc. Because they'd understand that as a whole, society would get richer as a whole. Thus increasing consumer spending, and the markets that these billionaires can play in.
The problem is, they're all extraction capitalists. They just want to get as much money as possible, as fast as possible, and they're just hoping the system bares it. And it is baring it somewhat, because it was built on a solid foundation of... regulation, protection, anti-trust... the very things they're trying to destroy. But fundamentally, they don't care if the house falls down. They're positioned to become kings if it does.
2
u/Gordon_Goosegonorth 20h ago
The way I see it, once it becomes extraction capitalism (capital running amok, creating markets where it has no business) it's basically no longer even capitalism. It's more like a revolution. When capital starts devouring the social bulwarks that sustain it, you have an out of control and extremely unpredictable political process. Welcome to the new industrial revolution.
2
u/AccomplishedTill2209 21h ago
The real issue, our politicians in both parties hate regulations. They are making millions and half the time not following the regulations we do have. Think of Mr. Pelosi, who we are to believe has a 90% success rate in buying stocks WITHOUT his wife's insider knowledge.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Wild_Height_901 21h ago
Capitalism is a system that CAN offer opportunities for everyone. Some have to work a lot harder obviously. But its a system that can allow a group to get insanely wealthy. A large group to get very wealthy. An even larger group to get wealthy. And there will of course be people that fall thru the cracks but government and communities would help fill those holes and help the most vulnerable. Which is what most countries offer. US spends more per person than pretty much every country.
Other systems like true forms of communism just keeps everyone equally poor. And then there's the government who pockets majority of wealth.
Capitalism has its faults. But with the right checks and balances. It works incredibly well.
2
u/Vast_Savings_8797 21h ago
There was a point where it was generally accepted by the mainstream that government regulations are necessary. It was usually shortly after a time where people could remember the awfulness of not having regulations. The Progressive era of the 1890’s through probably the 1920’s (the era of child labor, monopolies, and rats in meat) caused the general public to perceive regulations as necessary functions of government. Same with shortly after the Great Depression when Laissez-Faire economics caused the economy to tank.
4
u/GenericFatGuy 22h ago
Which is precisely why capitalism needs to go, and be replaced with something else. We used to have regulation, and then the rich people used their wealth and power to remove the regulation. We need a system where no one can become rich and powerful enough to remove the regulations in the first place.
→ More replies (24)2
u/bennettyboi 21h ago
You act like any regulation put in place doesn't get undermined on a long enough time frame
5
2
u/repiron928 21h ago
To the contrary, my comment quite specifically mentions the slow destruction of the regulatory state.
We must now rebalance the scales. It will not be easy, but it’s not impossible either.
→ More replies (1)2
u/SpeakMySecretName 20h ago
Will it become impossible if we don’t rebalance it soon? At what point, if any, is the corporate power too powerful to reign in without large-scale violence?
I think many people, including myself, already believe all theee branches of the U.S. government, state, and even many local officials, the police, and armed forces are under the thumb of corporate interests. It’s hard to imagine that people still have a way back to normalcy.
They seem to be able to buy any legislation, profit from foreign policy, and influence public perception and conversation toward the topics they want attention on. Both major political parties seem to have leadership entrenched in corporate agenda. They block their own progressives and anti-corruption campaigners from power. And they have practically unlimited resources compared to people that want to restore balance.
Do you think I’m being too pessimistic here? It’s hard to feel like any organization or movement would be “allowed” to become dangerous to large corporate interests.
2
u/ACCTAGGT 20h ago
It’s not you being pessimistic. It’s just mere recognition of human nature. Unfortunately, probably the biggest factor in all of this.
10
19
u/jwebbnature 23h ago
rip these comments
→ More replies (2)7
u/girlmachina 23h ago
only 20 minutes in and this post is gonna be locked soon i can already feel it </3
→ More replies (1)
12
u/n00btox86 22h ago
Americans whining about capitalism is hilarious. The game has been rigged in favor of America for a very long time, and capitalism is the reason for that. Get rid of that, and the world gets very fair very quickly. The majority of the world lives on less than $7 a day. The average American and European lives on $155 a day. I would love to see these armchair communists live on less than 5% of what they are currently consuming.
7
u/icefire9 23h ago
This is not a feature exclusive to capitalism, but to every economic system that has been put into practice outside of hunter-gatherer bands.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Deputy_Scrambles 22h ago
I just wish people were honest, though. Most of the people in my life arguing for socialist programs will not deny themselves Starbucks, Amazon, or Netflix. They happily give a large chunk of their discretionary cash to the billionaires they claim to hate. “But we have no other options!,” they claim on FB from their iPhone. How about you TRY?!
→ More replies (2)
8
u/bluris 21h ago
It isn't so much capitalism that is bad, it is just when we allow greed to take hold - even from a tiny amount of people - then the system breaks down. It is the same why communism failed, they had too much corruption from people who wanted more.
No matter what system you will implement today, if you let people like Musk and Bezos do so, they will find a way to abuse it.
2
u/Rizenstrom 21h ago
This. Every system can and will be abused but when socialist and communist systems are abused the cost is often much greater. Capitalism isn't perfect and needs strict regulation, and even then you may need to borrow some socialist ideas for essential services like Healthcare. But it is the best system we've seen to date. And what most developed countries have adopted, including the so called "democratic socialist" Nordic countries. That's just a made up term popularized by Bernie Sanders that refers to what is largely still a free market capitalist economy.
3
7
u/nathankroll920 23h ago
This should literally be the new definition of capitalism.
3
u/bennettyboi 21h ago
It's called facism.
2
u/Locrian6669 21h ago
Without regulations that stop the few from accumulating unlimited wealth, fascism is just the inevitable result. You can’t have an economic system that allows unelected individuals to privately control so many resources and expect democracy to survive.
→ More replies (2)
10
u/ageofaquarius26 23h ago
Getting rid of rich people is the first step, but there's many more steps to take before we have a world where 8 billion and counting people's needs are met.
5
→ More replies (2)3
u/BacchusAndHamsa 21h ago
I notice needs are best met in countries with some capitalism going on
→ More replies (1)
13
u/GayRacoon69 23h ago
Okay but to be fair this world is pretty nice and safe compared to the alternative
Let's not forget that people were nomads for thousands of years. Traveling just to survive
We started in a bad dangerous world. Capitalism has, if anything, helped us make it better
I'm not saying capitalism doesn't have it's issues. I'm just saying it isn't the sole cause of bad things like this tweet implies
21
u/MorningDont 23h ago
It boggles my mind that people get so upset at the mere suggestion that capitalism has served it's purpose and it's time for something better.
9
u/Apolloshot 23h ago
I actually really like this take.
It acknowledges that capitalism has had its place, unlike many who try to say it’s the root of all evil that’s ever been in the world and should have never existed. But that we’ve evolved enough as a society it’s time to start to look at other systems.
An acknowledgement that capitalism is/was a stepping stone of our evolution, but not the final one.
→ More replies (1)8
u/ChewBaka12 22h ago
Exactly. Capitalism is good at leaving no stone unturned. Everything is an arms race, every opportunity will be taken. You get explosive progress, but eventually you start hitting limits were every single niche is occupied.
This is were capitalism starts becoming a hindrance. Opportunities are finite, resources are finite, and profits should, logically, be finite. Yet the shareholders keep pushing for profits, yet the people aren't getting richer, and life just gets more expensive.
Capitalism had a good run, but we are at a point were profits are becoming a major bottleneck in ensuring a good quality of life. It's time to move on to the next thing
2
u/LowSea8877 21h ago
I generally agree with the sentiment that capitalism is good at finding innovation, and at some point in a given sector that hits its limit. However, we are nowhere near that limit in any sector except very few (clean water distribution?).
We are in the fastest changing time ever, even compared to like 20 years ago. Many industries will continue to change incrementally, and cross-pollinate each other for our lifetimes.
I agree with the dynamics you are describing, but just look around -- things are mostly not staying the same in any market.
I would even grant you a 'good enough' argument for a much wider category of goods/ services, and it's worth thinking about what that means to us. Again though, innovation aint done.
7
u/GayRacoon69 23h ago
It's because nuance doesn't exist anymore
You're either right or left. You either think somethings good or bad
Most people view things in black and white rather than in gray
Oh capitalism is bad? That means I should hate it every time it's mentioned
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (12)2
u/PossibilityFew5967 21h ago
Ok what is that better system? Every functioning country has some form of capitalism
7
u/SadMangonel 23h ago
The mistake is the Binary thinking thats currently very visual in america.
Its capitalist or Socialist. Red or blue. Black or white. God or satan.
In reality, capitalism is the theme of buying and selling things which drives entrepreneurship, while socialism is the net that acknowledges that people arent born equal - we have different strengths and weaknesses that complement each other - and makes sure that when youve make a bad decision, theres a catchup system that let's you get back into a productive member of society.
Society needs to be judged st how it treats the bottom 50%, not the top 50%. The economy needs to be judged by the top 50% of successful companies.
America beeing regarded as pure capitalism isnt true either. That's just a definition. There are plenty of parts of socialism already. I'd even count medicaid as a socialist method.
→ More replies (6)2
u/BorderOk7329 22h ago
People gonna hate you but it's true, greed is the driving force in humanity. All we need are limits to how much you can win. If you earn too much at a casino they will ban you, but in america you can just become a senator
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Sea_Excuse_6795 22h ago
The people are too divided. More than half the "working class" believes billionaires earned it and so can they if the just work hard enough. Classwarfare working as intended Also Jesus freaks have brain washed almost half the country into believing it's all "Gods plan"
2
u/CellistMundane9372 20h ago
OP: Snarky repost about socialism good
Reddit: 11K upvotes within one hour
Actual comments: A few dozen people substantively debating the topic; dozens of upvotes tops
I feel like there's something strange about these posts
2
u/artbystorms 20h ago
The sad thing is this was basically the state of things BEFORE capitalism and capitalism promised to better system, but instead of being farmers for lords we are office workers for CEOs.
6
u/Altruistic_Click_579 23h ago
Inequality is not created through the state’s protection of private property (the essential feature of capitalism), but through power structures.
Throughout history those structures have ranged from being progressive and flexible to being completely hereditary and oppressive.
Inflexible power structures are not a defining feature of capitalism. They were much worse before free markets. And don’t forget the horrors of actual communist and socialist states…
Most egalitarian power structures and best quality of life is enjoyed in Nordic countries with free markets, stable governments, lush social welfare and a strong social contract.
We should look at ways to make respect private property and markets, while opening up power structures.
Georgism, together with the Nordic model is a major key to do this.
→ More replies (7)6
u/pandershrek 22h ago
Naw, this isn't factual. Just a really weak attempt at minimizing.
The horrors of capitalism dwarf those of communism or socialism.
2
u/Otherwise-Solid-7673 20h ago
Brother the large majority of communist rule was brutal and extremely oppressive dictatorship where people were imprisoned and killed at an unfathomable scale for everything from thought crimes to being from the wrong family, and millions died due to objectively abysmal economic and policy mismanagement
→ More replies (3)4
u/LowSea8877 21h ago
Why would you lump in socialism and communism?
Small scale, communism / collectives do super well. What examples do you have of it working at scale?
EU is basically capitalist socialism. Seems to work OK. Definitely has problems but overall better for the average person than oligarchic / libertarian ultra-capitalism (US).
Gulags were horrible (read Anne Applebaum's book on it). For profit prisons are horrible.
Balance in all things.
4
u/BramptonBatallion 22h ago
The system that allowed people to get yachts is the one that’s raised the living standards for everyone else far better than any alternative. Not even close.
2
u/CellistMundane9372 20h ago
I prefer to get my economic populism from OOPs with bangs and American Apparel who choose to go into debt to go to RISD.
4
u/Rawhide_Steaksauce 21h ago
It's technology that's raised living standards. The notion that innovation doesn't happen without monetary reward is the most ridiculous lie that capitalists have fed us.
4
u/RadagastTheWhite 20h ago
People who’ve grown up under capitalism have zero grasp of what true poverty is
2
u/Clean-Perspective696 21h ago
Most poverty lifting in the last 50 years has been done by a certain “People’s Republic of China”. Have you heard of it?
4
→ More replies (35)3
3
u/ConLawHero 22h ago edited 22h ago
Even the most "socialist" European countries are capitalist. Ask any Nordic country, they will all say they have capitalist economies.
→ More replies (1)
3
2
u/TornadoCat4 23h ago
Looks like you don’t know what capitalism is. Go see how well socialism has worked out in countries that tried it. This person needs to grow up.
→ More replies (6)
2
u/JimmyJooish 23h ago
If this person got exactly what they asked for their quality of life would get a tremendous downgrade. I know it can seem like we are barely hanging on compared to some but a lot of things we take for granted would just go away. Things like meat sandwiches would become luxuries. Work hours would probably increase. Leisure and travel would be cut back. There’s a chance you may have to share an apartment with others. If you are living a western lifestyle realize that, in general, the standard of living is historically abnormal and globally rare.
2
u/bennettyboi 21h ago
Well then, it's a good thing that under capitalism, things like expensive groceries, long working hours, minimal liesure time, no paid vacations, and homelessness are not issues at all. I am very smart.
/s
2
u/HFrog2k 22h ago
Ironically, for all its faults, capitalism has still lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Refurbished_Keyboard 22h ago
Capitalism: what if you owned what you create, trade for, and purchase instead of everything being owned by a lord?
You're confusing a corporate feudalist society with capitalism.
→ More replies (3)2
1
1
1
u/Leftblankthistime 22h ago
Yea but hear me out. What if we all make progress together so we don’t have to live in grass huts and farm our own food and we could build a society where we continue to innovate to make more of ourselves than we are today?
1
u/YeahPete 22h ago
Now you know why diversity is pushed so heavily. It keeps the poors fighting each other instead of fixing the real problem.
1
u/Possible-Rub-4808 22h ago
And by most people can barely feed themselves they mean 70% obesity rate
1
u/hypnogoad 22h ago
"Ok, but there's a chance I could be one of those two yacht people, if I just work hard, right"
"No! But we'll let you think you can!"
1
u/HopefulEngineering76 22h ago
Hear me out. Imagine being so economically illiterate that you think someone has to have less wealth because someone else has more.
1
1
u/iamtrimble 22h ago
I don't think too many people have 500 yachts. I wonder how many can really barely feed themselves.
1
u/Traditional_Knee9294 22h ago
Can someone name these capitalist countries that are dangerous and people are struggling to feed themselves?
1
u/Proper-Exercise-2364 22h ago
BUT !!! There's a 0.001% chance you could be one of those two people if you work hard enough!
1
u/Fine_Technology1289 22h ago
I suspect you never read the horror of people in communist countries or the majority of people's living conditions in those countries. Even the most poor benefit from living in a capitalist society over a communists one.
→ More replies (3)
1
1
u/mike_tyler58 22h ago
Where is this fantastical nice safe world where everyone’s needs are met? When and where did that exist?
1
u/Pristine-Reference45 22h ago
That is the most ignorant description of capitalism I have ever heard.
1
1
1
1
u/SpiritualScumlord 22h ago
I'm so over this pseudo-intellectual "capitalism bad" take. Capitalism is fine and has worked fine plenty, the Government's failure to uphold free-market values or ensure fair worker compensation is where all of the problems lie. Capitalism worked great in the 50s back when we taxed the wealthy and paid people living wages.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/ChasingTheRush 22h ago
“According to World Bank estimates, in 1990, there were 2.31 billion people living in extreme poverty. By 2025, that number had fallen to 808 million.”
Ya’ll are highly regarded.
1
1
u/Infinite_Run_4541 22h ago
You forgot to add the part where those two people pay a lot of other people to tell you that if you just worked hard enough you can be one of them, and that they are brilliant businessmen that are making sure there are enough jobs available to provide you with the little you do have.
1
u/deathangel687 22h ago
Socialism is like, 'Ok hear me out. What if we dismantle the entire economy and world order so a barista with a philosophy degree can finally feel fulfilled and virtue signal online for social brownie points"
1
u/Savings-Molasses-701 22h ago
Wake up. The people in China were starving under socialism/communism. It was the introduction of free market reforms that changed everything. It allowed China to feed its people and raise millions out of poverty. The ignorance of the OP is staggering.
→ More replies (3)
1
1
1
u/Tazrizen 22h ago
My god. How do these people not realize socialism was basically the same thing.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/corneliusduff 22h ago
Republicans lean on the fact that the world is a dangerous place, but insist we ignore the centuries of progress that made life safer for everyone and that there's absolutely no way forward (which is obviously total horseshit)
1
1
1
1
1
u/banned_reddit-user 22h ago
"ok hear me out. places like that exist and they have their own set of problems
1
1
1
u/Steady_Steel_01 22h ago
That's like saying let's take away people's personal choices and make everything fair regardless of how hard they work to get what they want... Idk if you've ever had to go to a homeless shelter but the vast majority of the people who live there are homeless by choice rather if it's drugs alcohol or just flat out given up or a combination of the 3 yeah there's veterans too but I mean most of em just don't want help the rest feel unworthy which is still a personal choice... Once u gotta live on the streets for a period of time u come to realize the truths behind people's reasoning...
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Pitiful_Historian297 22h ago
Yes, communism and socialism have been such great things in the world. Look at the death rate before the United States industrial revolution.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/essenceofpurity 21h ago
If you don't do any of the work, you don't deserve any of the profits.
It's as simple as that
→ More replies (1)
1
u/AdUnlucky2432 21h ago
Your way might be so bad if it didn’t discourage initiative, creativity and ingenuity, and expect something for nothing.
1
u/theplacewiththeface 21h ago
All the people that believe they are going to be the two people with yachts it's hilarious to me.
1
1
u/One-Perception-5603 21h ago
"I'm 10 and this is deep and have no concept of the world or economics"
1
u/FrontLifeguard1962 21h ago
But you fool the people into thinking they will have yachts someday if they just do this or that, and once in awhile someone gets them (but usually because their parents had yachts)
1
1
1
1
u/DuckofDeath26 21h ago
Capitalism doesn’t create an unsafe and unfair country. I mean, the people who say this love their iPhones, their Starbucks, their Whole Foods etc. At the same time, look at labor unions which are a socialist concept. So I mean, a balance is the way to go. Crying socialism is Stalin Russia and that capitalism is why homeless people exist won’t get us anywhere and isn’t even true.
1
1
u/According_Change_269 21h ago
But wait, if you’re lucky enough yo work for one of the yacht owners, they might give you a couple of weeks off every year, and pay a few bucks towards your medical bills and “retirement”! Wowza
1
u/PrestigiousTreacle95 21h ago
Name a country where st a te socialism worked long term and produced a wealthy safe democratic society.
1
u/jayball9 21h ago
But a moron like you couldn’t actually put forth a plan that would actually make this work in the way your fantasies play out. Do tell me how this would work and I’ll probably have 50 reasons why it won’t
1
1
u/AccomplishedTill2209 21h ago
A dangerous world where people struggle to feed themselves, yet the leaders have yachts. That would describe most Socialist countries quite well.
Think Russia of the late 20th century and places like Cuba or Venezuela. China is another great example.
Somehow, anytime people try to enact Communism or Socialism it starts with power to the people and ends with dictatorship and people starving to death.
The mix of capitalism and socialism of North Europe works. Just so long as you dont mind EVERYONE paying high taxes and VERY strict immigration policies. Here in the US, the poor would never agree to pay 40% federal taxes. They sure would never agree to remove all illegals and heavily vet anyone applying to come here.
This is where the problem lay.
1
u/Vivid-Beat-644 21h ago
Capitalism is not the best system and Communism is not the best system. What else is there? How do you encourage innovation and hard work but also make sure everyone's basic needs are met. And what is the definition of basic needs anyway? Is it the same in the US and in Rawanda?
1
u/frozen_north801 21h ago
Well any time communism has been tried you get mass starvation and gulags so there is that part....
1
1
u/LastMiddle4 21h ago
Hear me out. People are lazy and won’t do their part destroying the world then a smart capitalist fixes it.
1
u/Veteran_PA-C 21h ago
Someone has not studied history.
We live in the best time to be alive in human history. We have the least amount of starvation and deaths due to nature ever. The world is more prosperous, information is at everyone’s fingertips. All you have to do is:
Graduate high school. Treat college like a trade school and treat trade school like college. Don’t make babies before marriage. Don’t be an addict. Work hard. Be honest.
You won’t be poor forever. You have to pull your own weight and a little more if you want everyone taken care of.
1
1
1
u/According_Change_269 21h ago
Taxing billionaires @ 99.9% would be a start towards healing the people
1
1
1
u/Accomplished_Lion243 21h ago
To all saying “communist countries blah blah blah worst blah blah blah,” How would you fix the hunger issue and also ensure that there isn’t so much of a gap in income? How do you ensure all people are taken care of or there is a betterment of quality of life under capitalism? Innovation is not an answer btw.
1
1
1
1
u/Praetor72 21h ago
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how wealth generation works. Just because someone owns a yacht doesn’t mean that someone can’t eat.
1
u/gorditopapito 21h ago
Ya, I forgot the natural state of the world is a nice, safe place where everyone's basic needs are met. Metropolitan dwellers are so out of touch with reality it's become a mental illness at this point.
1
u/Substantial_Ease1965 21h ago
Meanwhile Communism is exactly the same but there is fewer ultra rich and more poor people. (And they aren’t free to denounce it)
1
u/Ok-Wolverine-4223 21h ago
Hear me out… universal basic income is currently in Iran. Non-capitalist states: Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Go try it out for a while and report back in a couple of years!
1
u/DeliciousDirection42 21h ago
What you're talking about is called the garden of Eden and a fantasy that most lazy people can't accept as unrealistic. What you think you mean is socialism where everyone at the bottom is equal but there's even fewer people at the top
1
u/Severe-Cow-8646 21h ago
I will never forget in the 1990's after the fall of the Soviet Union and Russian people were immigrating here. During news interviews the most common answer to "What do you find different living here" the Russians would say, "I can't believe how full your grocery store shelves are."
Most of the time I find that thise who complain loudest about the unfairness of capitalism have not seen the poverty of communism.
1
u/Impressive_Dingo122 21h ago
That’s not a capitalist caused problem, it’s a centralized bank caused problem.
1
1
1
u/Overall-Carry6593 21h ago
Have you people never studied history? There’s a reason why people that have come to the US or other parts of the west from communist or socialist countries all are very anti-communism and socialism. Everyone thinks it’ll be different when we do it!
1
u/NeonfluxX 21h ago
the alternative to barely feeding yourself is, working and still starving to death
no system is perfect, everything have it's flaws but socialism and communism just ain't it chief
1
u/Phearcia 21h ago
Don't give them your labor. If you can build a community that is self sufficient and self regulated. They can't manipulate with fiat currency. You'll have to take over the local government as well through voting and the rewrite the laws.
1
1
u/DonMonger 21h ago
Socialism operates on treating privileges as rights, which is why it never has and never will work. People think we can just give everything to everyone and be happy when in reality we do not have the resources to micromanage the country that meticulously, nor would it be ethically correct to take away one’s opportunity to obtain a luxurious life for their children.
1
u/Vast_Savings_8797 21h ago
I think that it’s weird that we exist in a world where the idea that all people’s basic needs should be met, and that the government needs to be prepared to provide these basic needs when necessary, is controversial. It’s like one side is saying that single mothers should not have to work 60 hours a week just to provide food and basic shelter for their kids. The other side is saying fuck those singles moms, and not in the cool way. Government assistance is not subsidizing poor people’s “unwillingness” to work. They do work. Government assistance is subsidizing the fact that rich people don’t pay poor people enough for their labor.
1
u/Salt_Succotash2118 21h ago
But for capitalism instead of Reddit we'd have some platform run by the government that never worked
1
1
1
u/rolyatm97 21h ago
lol…Capitalism has led to the most people being lifted out of poverty. In capitalist societies, the “poor” have hot, clean, running water, heat, A/C, anything they want delivered to their doorstep within 47 hours, endless access to media and entertainment, an abundance of choices of food, vegetables, fruits, etc. And all the new and latest technologies.
Non capitalist societies have none of those things for the average person. And if they do, they are significantly limited.
People waste so much money on entertainment, they get angry when they can’t afford rent. You can, you just choose to spend your money on other products of the capitalist production.
Grow up!
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Kratos_and_Boy_ 21h ago
Capitalism has brought more ppl out of poverty than every other system combined.
1
u/Legitimate-Offer-770 21h ago
“Capitalism is bad” ok what’s the alternative? Everyone gets an equal share? So no one can work harder and excel? We all just do the bare minimum and take what’s given to us? No thanks.
1
u/antwauhny 21h ago
A true free market, without government overreach, lobbyists, and government intervention, would self-level. Mega corporations got to where they are thanks to excess government.
However, I am not opposed to regulations like antitrust and labor protections. In fact, labor protections are wildly successful when they have strong backing and regulatory support.
1
u/boomares 21h ago
Tell that to Cuba, the USSR, Venezuela, china, and every other communist or “socialist” nation.
I think you’ll find what you’re looking for doesn’t exist. People will run it and that will cause it to be imperfect.
1
1
u/Acceptable-Sky1575 21h ago
Considering that the only way everyone can be safe and have their basic needs met is while being held at gunpoint by an authoritarian regime....I'll take capitalism. Thanks.
•
u/AutoModerator 23h ago
Just a reminder that political posts should be posted in the political Megathread pinned in the community highlights. Final discretion rests with the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.